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Friday, July 15, 2016

Donald Trump Didn't Want Mike Pence as His VP

But then again, why should this surprise us: Pence didn't vote for Trump and told everyone else not to vote for him in Indiana.

Clearly Pence is an effective kingmaker.

"Scoop: @realDonaldTrump was so unsure about @mike_pencethat around midnight last night he asked top aides if he could get out of it."

— Dana Bash (@DanaBashCNN) July 15, 2016

http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2016/07/15/breaking.-donald-trump-want-mike-pence-vp/

HT: Tom Brown, who else?

It seems that Manafort actually checkmated the master of controlling the media yesterday by leaking that Pence was the guy.

"Seems increasingly likely that Pence news was leaked Thursday to force Trump’s hand. He nearly tore up the plans, b4 going forward with it."

This was what Trump's talk last night about needing another 48 hours to announce Pence after the Nice terrorist attacks was all about.

He was hoping to stall. When he talked on O'Reilly last night about Christie and Gingrich, that was real. He really hoped to somehow back out.

Now when Trump attacks Hillary on Libya, we can just point this out:

"Mike Pence praised Hillary Clinton during the Libya intervention."

https://twitter.com/samsteinhp/status/753999284236943364

We can do the same on TPP.

So in discussing the winners and the losers in this pick, it's true that Manafort was the big winner and Chris Christie the big loser, but Trump was also outplayed by Manafort.

Part of the reason for this might be Trump himself is starting to doubt Trumpism. He bought the argument that he had to calm down on this pick rather than double down.

#Trump circle thought #Newt went too far last night, confirming #Pence choice."

https://twitter.com/howardfineman/status/753970875242774528?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Here is Shane Goldmacher's list of errors in the Pence rollout.

https://twitter.com/ShaneGoldmacher/status/753974532428406784

Biggest one is: choosing a guy Trump doesn't want.

P.S. This is also a pretty decent mistake in terms of just being plain, old, incorrect.

#Trump circle thought #Newt went too far last night, confirming #Pence choice."

https://twitter.com/howardfineman/status/753970875242774528

UPDATE: Another gem from Noah Rothman:
Starting to feel kinda bad about how Pence's rollout is being dealt with. Hill Rs seem happier about it than the campaign."

https://twitter.com/NoahCRothman/status/754011752996671488

"He'll dump Pence in October as a Hail Mary to shake up the race."

https://twitter.com/NoahCRothman/status/754010734913355777

31 comments:

  1. And now it seems that there's evidence Pence isn't so keen on Trump either:
    http://theresurgent.com/more-confirmation-that-mike-pence-privately-hates-donald-trump/

    Thanks for the H/T Mike.

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  2. Well for starters Pence didn't vote for Trump and told everyone else not to vote for him.

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  3. Now that Trump has screwed him around like this-keeping him waiting; hearing the stories that Trump was trying to get out of it-Im sure he's an even bigger Trump fan.

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    Replies
    1. Somewhere I saw a suggestion that if Trump feels like he needs to shake things up in October, he'll try to ditch Pence. That would probably be outside the rules, but so what? It's Trump we're talking about.

      You know what Trump is like: he's like the worst kind of anonymous right wing Fox News commenter, full of false bravado, stupid as a bag of hammers, vindictive, outrageous and proudly ignorant... only come to life as a real person. I can't imagine a worse choice, except maybe from the StormFront comments section.

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    2. Not to toot my own horn but I mentioned Trump backing out myself-you may have read it here-maybe even this post if we scrolled up

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    3. Maybe I did read it here, but I don't think so... I'm not sure now.

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  4. Mike, I'm sure you've heard Newt's suggestion to punish people for religious thought crimes, right?:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/15/after-nice-newt-gingrich-wants-to-test-every-american-muslim-and-deport-those-who-believe-in-sharia/?tid=hybrid_collaborative_3_na

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  5. Trump ally threatens to have a #NeverTrump delegate "hung for treason":
    http://www.redstate.com/absentee/2016/07/15/you-hung-top-trump-ally-ny-campaign-chair-sends-vicious-threat-anti-trump-delegate/

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    1. I always thought Bill S. (RedState moderator) was a humorless draconian, policing RedState for any signs of unacceptable deviation from the website's predominant view. A censor who was always vigilant and took his job seriously. And I still think that. I've seen him ban a lot of people over the years, and as a result the commenters there have their own "safe space" free from ridicule or opinions that are too shockingly different than their used to. At least he's a fair censor, in that he eliminates snark, satire, ridicule, trolling or opinions more than 1-sigma from what's acceptable there on both the right and left (and libertarian for that matter).

      But I'll give him credit for this: he's been VERY consistent with this opinion on Trump, which I agree with him on 100%:

      Another Trump follower shows why Donald Trump must be demolished. He must lose by a landslide in the general election to shut down these assclowns. Trumpism must die a fast, absolute death.

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    2. (I'm guessing that means he's voting Hillary, because obviously she's the best way to provide Trump with a resounding defeat)

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  6. Mike, as anti-democratic as this is (the coup in Turkey) this article actually lines up pretty will with my understanding of Turkey and how the "checks and balances" work over there:
    http://www.redstate.com/neil_stevens/2016/07/15/theres-coup-going-turkey-heres-why./

    So I wouldn't necessarily be sad to see Erdogan go, even though it's accomplished through a coup. However, what really tickles me about articles like this from conservatives is the following: when writing about a country like Turkey the phrase "secular" or "secular values" is used like it's a good thing, but when talking about the US it's always used in a pejorative manner.

    It's almost like inside every hard right winger it's understood that Christian theocracy is what's good for America, but "secularism" is good for any country that's not Christian ... baby steps I guess.

    Christian theocracy > secularism > any other form of theocracy

    Again, I wish I could figure out how to get an account over there (all my attempts have failed) so I could gently hold a mirror up to their faces once in a while (gently so I don't get banned w/in the hour by Bill S. like you would Mike! Lol).

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    1. Still, interestingly there is a big popular uprising against the coup.

      Even the leftist opposition party that's been persecuted by Erdogan is against it.

      If Iraq showed us anything, though, simply wanting a dictator to leave because he's a dictator doesn't always pay dividends.

      I'd never make it over there. That's your job! LOL

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    2. Yes, I'm coming around to that view in this case.

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  7. O/T: Sorry to leave so many comments for you Mike, but I gotta ask: what's your read on the latest French "terror" attack?

    I put "terror" in quotes, because it's still not 100% clear what this killer was on about. Sure, it's probably an ISIS or Al Qeda attack, but I hate when the press jumps to conclusions, and not just because I'm trying to be PC but because Why be wrong for no reason? The Egypt Air thing is still not clear, and recall how Trump was insisting it was "radical Islamic terror" right form the get go? Jumping to conclusions before all the facts are in is classic Trumpesque and I scolded Erickson on his facebook page for acting like Trump in this regard.

    But in either case, calling a terror task force, and looking into how this attack was planned and so forth I think just highlights the awesome advantage of "asymmetric" warfare that terrorists (or just average assholes who want to go on a rampage) enjoy over the rest of us. Look how easy it was for this guy: he bicycled to a truck rental place. That's it. End of story. What's "weird" about that? There's no sophistication required there at all, except a little inside knowledge of where and when a huge crowd would be gathered, perfectly arranged to be run over with a big truck. He didn't need the gun. That's all there is to it! How in the world can we defend against that? All the information we might gain about whether he was influenced by religious extremists or not doesn't protect us from the next guy like this who's willing to trade his life to cause as much damage as possible. This plan of his was a kind of genius really... evil genius to be sure, but genius nonetheless: so simple, so effective: he may end up killing more than in all the coordinated attacks in Paris by the time this is over... since there's still some 50 people clinging to life right now... and he did it single handedly and he did it completely under the radar. All he needed was a truck on Bastille day in Nice. Amazing!

    For all the political tough talk, how do you defend against that? I'm sure somebody else is right now thinking of something equally evil and simple and effective they can do, and if they keep under the radar about it, how will we ever know? You don't need anything fancy... just a truck rental will do. Who knows what the next "inventive" mass murder will entail?

    I'd like to hear somebody bring this up in the media. It's something that has to be pointed out... it won't make people feel any better, but it's the truth.

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  8. Tom, the one thing you never have to do is apologize for too many comments. The more the merrier.

    I will catch up with your comments later-as I want to catch Shadi Hamid on Chris Hayes-Hamid is a Middle Eastern scholar who wrote this book

    https://www.amazon.com/Islamic-Exceptionalism-Struggle-Islam-Reshaping/dp/1250061016?ie=UTF8&keywords=islamic%20exceptionalism&qid=1447698723&ref_=sr_1_1&s=books&sr=1-1

    He's also Middle Eastern himself and will talk to Hayes about Turkey on all that.

    One thought: I'm convinced ISIS wants Trump to win. They would love that as it would mobilize many more to their cause.

    If we do-as I believe beat Trump-we really will have dodged a major bullet.

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  9. Those are the two rules of Last Men and OverMen.

    1. You can never leave too many comments

    2. You can never buy too much on Amazon.

    You take 1 to heart, Nanute takes number 2. LOL

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  10. What does strike me, Tom, is that there is something about a full moon or something in the water in 2016.

    Seems like every day there's some new huge outbreak of disorder and chaos.

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    1. Yes, and now next up: two weeks of political conventions.

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  11. As for the Turkey coup, I also tend not to support it for the simple reason that: Obama doesn't.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/barack-obama-turkey-coup-225642

    I do take Obama's views-or Hillary's views- as signals on some things.

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    1. Seeing that the coup does not seem to be popular, I tend to agree.

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  12. And Erdogan was elected, after all.

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    1. Coups are not good in general, I agree.

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  13. Hamid wants the US NATO Commander to stem the coup 'today, not tomorrow'

    https://twitter.com/shadihamid/status/754085939476062209

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  14. Here is Hamid:

    "Probably many "liberals" (and maybe some in DC) who are cheering this on b/c their hatred of Islamists takes precedence over democracy."

    https://twitter.com/shadihamid/status/754056140942675968

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    1. I'm no expert, but it is my understanding that the military has served as the ultimate "check" on civilian control in Turkey historically. However, if the coup involves shooting lots of people, then it's clearly the wrong move. Let's hope that soldiers ordered to fire on civilians will balk.

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  15. You know what would go a long way to partially redeeming the Bush family in my view? If they came out and publicly said they were planning to support Hillary... say the day after the GOP actually goes through with nominating Trump. It would show that for all their mistakes and underhanded BS, they actually can step up and do what's right for the country in times of crisis.

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    1. True. I mean even Jeb seemed to hint that he might vote for her. He said he's be 'sad' if she won but is scared at the idea of him winning.

      So I wonder if he is voting for her-though he says he's voting for neither.

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    2. Yes, sad trumps fear.

      Take $1000 from me, and I'll be sad. Shoot at me with an AR-15 and I'll be afraid. I'll take the former.

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  16. Why Mike Pence might be the best choice for America:
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/7/15/1548596/-Why-Donald-Trump-s-safe-pick-of-Mike-Pence-might-turn-out-to-be-an-utter-disaster

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