As I watched Trump last night talk about how South Korea and Japan should get nuclear weapons, it occurred to me that, say what you want about his foreign policy ideas, they aren't incoherent.
Now, of course, coherence is not proof of truth but coherence does enable you to at least engage an idea.
The Trump Doctrine is basically America First. It's Pat Buchanan's foreign policy. The idea is let Japan and South Korea get nuclear weapons, then we can cut back on our defense of the countries.
There is a piece in Time magazine that argues that Trump's foreign policy ideas need to be engaged.
"Trump isn't an isolationist, but his view of foreign policy is dangerous for the U.S. and the world."
http://time.com/4275516/donald-trump-foreign-policy-2/
I don't know that I'd agree that he doesn't at least have isolationist tendencies. He has a clear desire for America to 'go it alone.' What might be interesting is to ask him about the other international institutions. Or even the big climate deal with China.
Does he think this was another case where we got 'robbed by the Chinese?'
The idea of letting South Korea and Japan have nukes is commensurate with a world view in which the US has less international allies and is involved in fewer alliances.
A world with fewer alliances and treaties is a more dangerous world-think about the era prior to postwar Europe. It would seem to mean the opposite of Hillary's smart power that she developed at State while serving Obama's Administration.
Remember: the corollary of Trump saying Japan and South Korea can get the bomb is his not ruling out the use of nuclear weapons. For their part, Japan and South Korea want no part of Trump's' permission.
"Evidently, Trump did not run this idea by Japanese and South Korean leaders before proposing it. According to the Washington Post, officials and newspapers from both countries responded to Trump's remarks with confusion at best and derision at worst. "We are dumbfounded at such myopic views of a leading candidate in the U.S. presidential race who tries to approach such critical issues only from the perspective of expenses," JoongAng Ilbo, one of South Korea's biggest newspapers, wrote in an editorial.
"Another paper, Hankyoreh, urged the South Korean government to "express its firm opposition to Trump’s foreign policy plan, which constitutes a threat to security on the Korean Peninsula." Meanwhile, the spokesperson for South Korea's defense ministry told the Post that there would be no change in diplomatic relations with the U.S."
"Tokyo's chief cabinet secretary, Yoshihide Suga, assured the Post that "whoever becomes president of the United States, the Japan-U.S. alliance, based on a bilateral security agreement, will remain the core of Japan’s diplomacy." He went on, "We will adhere to our three principles that prohibit Japan from owning, developing and transporting a nuclear arsenal."
"Saudi Arabia has yet to respond to Trump's "take the oil" proposal, and there's no word from China regarding Trump's plan to cut off Chinese access to American markets. At this rate, by the time the Republican National Convention rolls around, the United States won't have any allies left."
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/03/japan-south-korea-confused-by-trump-nuke-policy.html
Now, of course, coherence is not proof of truth but coherence does enable you to at least engage an idea.
The Trump Doctrine is basically America First. It's Pat Buchanan's foreign policy. The idea is let Japan and South Korea get nuclear weapons, then we can cut back on our defense of the countries.
There is a piece in Time magazine that argues that Trump's foreign policy ideas need to be engaged.
"Trump isn't an isolationist, but his view of foreign policy is dangerous for the U.S. and the world."
“I know the outer world exists, and I’ll be very cognizant of that, but at the same time, our country is disintegrating,” says Donald Trump, who wants to “make America great again” by refocusing U.S. foreign policy to rebuild American strength from within. This idea comes not from a civil libertarian’s respect for the constitution, but from his trademark exhibitionist belligerence. He’s less Thomas Jefferson than George Jefferson, moving on up to win his party’s presidential nomination."
"Trump is no actual isolationist. He says he wants to build U.S. military might. He has floated the use of American ground troops in Syria, pledged to torture suspected terrorists, argued for increased use of drones and for “knocking the hell out of ISIS”—maybe even with nuclear weapons. Trump doesn’t oppose trade. He wants to shred the “stupid” agreements of the past and bring his state-of-the-art negotiating skills to secure much better deals, all to restore America’s lost prosperity and U.S. manufacturing jobs."
"Trump is no actual isolationist. He says he wants to build U.S. military might. He has floated the use of American ground troops in Syria, pledged to torture suspected terrorists, argued for increased use of drones and for “knocking the hell out of ISIS”—maybe even with nuclear weapons. Trump doesn’t oppose trade. He wants to shred the “stupid” agreements of the past and bring his state-of-the-art negotiating skills to secure much better deals, all to restore America’s lost prosperity and U.S. manufacturing jobs."
http://time.com/4275516/donald-trump-foreign-policy-2/
I don't know that I'd agree that he doesn't at least have isolationist tendencies. He has a clear desire for America to 'go it alone.' What might be interesting is to ask him about the other international institutions. Or even the big climate deal with China.
Does he think this was another case where we got 'robbed by the Chinese?'
The idea of letting South Korea and Japan have nukes is commensurate with a world view in which the US has less international allies and is involved in fewer alliances.
A world with fewer alliances and treaties is a more dangerous world-think about the era prior to postwar Europe. It would seem to mean the opposite of Hillary's smart power that she developed at State while serving Obama's Administration.
Remember: the corollary of Trump saying Japan and South Korea can get the bomb is his not ruling out the use of nuclear weapons. For their part, Japan and South Korea want no part of Trump's' permission.
"Evidently, Trump did not run this idea by Japanese and South Korean leaders before proposing it. According to the Washington Post, officials and newspapers from both countries responded to Trump's remarks with confusion at best and derision at worst. "We are dumbfounded at such myopic views of a leading candidate in the U.S. presidential race who tries to approach such critical issues only from the perspective of expenses," JoongAng Ilbo, one of South Korea's biggest newspapers, wrote in an editorial.
"Another paper, Hankyoreh, urged the South Korean government to "express its firm opposition to Trump’s foreign policy plan, which constitutes a threat to security on the Korean Peninsula." Meanwhile, the spokesperson for South Korea's defense ministry told the Post that there would be no change in diplomatic relations with the U.S."
"Tokyo's chief cabinet secretary, Yoshihide Suga, assured the Post that "whoever becomes president of the United States, the Japan-U.S. alliance, based on a bilateral security agreement, will remain the core of Japan’s diplomacy." He went on, "We will adhere to our three principles that prohibit Japan from owning, developing and transporting a nuclear arsenal."
"Saudi Arabia has yet to respond to Trump's "take the oil" proposal, and there's no word from China regarding Trump's plan to cut off Chinese access to American markets. At this rate, by the time the Republican National Convention rolls around, the United States won't have any allies left."
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/03/japan-south-korea-confused-by-trump-nuke-policy.html
That's the key. Trump's foreign policy is strictly 'go it alone.' This is a recipe not for less war but more. The lesson of WWII is that alliances and treaties-internationalism are the way to avoid such disasters in the future.
Trump seems to think a world in which everyone has nuclear weapons and uses them the negotiate foreign relations is going to be more peaceful. Obviously the truth is quite the opposite.
Still, purely on political grounds. Trump's philosophy might have some appeal. The Clinton team is right to be concerned about his unpredictability. This is not an orthodox Republican candidate. In this way, Ted Cruz would be much simpler to prepare against.
Time decides there is a need to show why the Trump Doctrine is wrong. I think they are correct here. I think there are some voters who might think America First makes a lot of sense right now in a time of nagging economic insecurity.
"I’ve written in recent weeks that Trump has embraced an “America first” foreign policy. I didn’t mean that as a compliment, and I’m surprised to see him grab that label with both hands. But “America first” won’t make America great again, because the country’s exceptionalism is based not simply on its military strength and wealth. For all its faults and shortcomings, the U.S. remains a nation—and an idea—worth emulating. It provided a winning alternative to fascism and communism when the world needed one and has created many of the institutions and innovations that have helped lift hundreds of millions out of poverty. It has set a standard of individual freedom and opportunity against which people everywhere measure their own governments. The American idea of citizenship is based on allegiance rather than tribe, drawing people to its shores from around the world."
"These are the choices and values that make America great. Donald Trump lives in a zero-sum world in which China’s leaders “have drained so much money out of our country that they’ve rebuilt China.” He divides the world into winners and losers, good and evil, workers and freeloaders, us and them. That’s hardly an exceptional idea for an exceptional country."
"What if the America that others emulate is the small-minded, self-interested version? What would that mean for the future of Europe’s union, law and order in Asia, efforts to contain wildfires in the Middle East or to coordinate foreign and trade policy in Africa and Latin America? Will it help the world harmonize its efforts to fight terrorism? Can Americans remain safe in an increasingly volatile world?"
"It’s not enough to dismiss or denounce Trump and his foreign policy views, even if he never becomes President. The questions he raises, and the resentments they engender, must be answered, clearly and confidently, or they will linger. That’s a risk that America and the world can’t afford."
Where Trump is wrong is his assumption that the US pays all the costs and derives none of the benefits from international alliances and relations.
Things like the NATO treaty have many moving parts which benefit all the members in different ways.
Trump's working assumption is we live in a zero sum world. The whole point of diplomacy and alliances is this is not the case. That nations can find common ground. Trump's world would be one where things are more and more decided by sheer brute force.
But I do think that this idea could have some appeal to some voters which is why this has to be understood. In some ways, it's almost like there has been total amnesia on what we learnt after WWII-that a zero sum world is a very dangerous one.
"These are the choices and values that make America great. Donald Trump lives in a zero-sum world in which China’s leaders “have drained so much money out of our country that they’ve rebuilt China.” He divides the world into winners and losers, good and evil, workers and freeloaders, us and them. That’s hardly an exceptional idea for an exceptional country."
"What if the America that others emulate is the small-minded, self-interested version? What would that mean for the future of Europe’s union, law and order in Asia, efforts to contain wildfires in the Middle East or to coordinate foreign and trade policy in Africa and Latin America? Will it help the world harmonize its efforts to fight terrorism? Can Americans remain safe in an increasingly volatile world?"
"It’s not enough to dismiss or denounce Trump and his foreign policy views, even if he never becomes President. The questions he raises, and the resentments they engender, must be answered, clearly and confidently, or they will linger. That’s a risk that America and the world can’t afford."
Where Trump is wrong is his assumption that the US pays all the costs and derives none of the benefits from international alliances and relations.
Things like the NATO treaty have many moving parts which benefit all the members in different ways.
Trump's working assumption is we live in a zero sum world. The whole point of diplomacy and alliances is this is not the case. That nations can find common ground. Trump's world would be one where things are more and more decided by sheer brute force.
But I do think that this idea could have some appeal to some voters which is why this has to be understood. In some ways, it's almost like there has been total amnesia on what we learnt after WWII-that a zero sum world is a very dangerous one.
Mike, you might like this (composed by one of my friends, who's online handle is "Crustacean") (it's in reference to the guns-at-the-convention petition trolling, so perhaps a little late):
ReplyDelete[to the tune of “San Francisco” by Scott McKenzie]
If you’re going to be in Cleveland
Be sure your magazine’s loaded for bear
If you’re going to be in Cleveland
You’re gonna meet some of Drumpf’s people there
For those who make the trek to Cleveland
Summertime will be a gunnin’ there
In streets of the Forest City
Angry folks will wave rifles in the air
All across the nation
Strange confabulation
Of self-promotion
And impotent frustration
With a trigger fixation
An Arctic Ocean
Of melting emotion
For those who make the trek to Cleveland
Be sure your bandolier’s loaded for bear
If you come to good ol’ C-Town
Summertime will be a gunnin’ there
He also passed along this great photo of the caterpillar of the Flannel moth.
O/T: BTW, I tried to stir up a little trouble between Egmont Kakarot-Handtke and Major.Freedom by trying to leave a comment by user:
ReplyDelete"I <3 tard fights"
to MF saying "Wow, what do you think about Egmont's argument MF? Hard to refute, eh?" ... but it went straight to moderation (likely never to be seen -- weird, eh?).
Yes, it was wrong, and yes I should be ashamed of myself. Still I cracked myself up doing it. (I feel like I may have something to do with Egmont leaving a comment there in the 1st place... as I encouraged him to do several times).
I like it. Too bad it didn't let you do it.
ReplyDeleteIf it's wrong, then I don't want to be right. LOL
Messing with Major Freedom is always good by definition.
This one did go through. At first I thought it didn't like the "<" because it didn't print that or what followed, so I changed it to "I love tard fights" ... still no luck (it bounced the right name back, but still went to moderation).
DeleteBTW, I'm thinking of changing my avatar to that flannel moth caterpillar (at least for the 2016 campaign season).
Million dollar idea? How about a stuffed Flannel Moth caterpillar toy for children? Another million dollar idea: (too late for Easter... shoot!)... Hams with Donald Trump's face impressed in them? (That would get me sued fast!)... Lol. I wonder if Donald is going to sue the moth?
DeleteOh.... ham garnished with flannel moth caterpillars! The best of both worlds!
Tell you what: I'll be interesting just to see Sumner's reaction to Egmont. He's basically razzing economics as not real science.
ReplyDeleteSumner's response to this argument-it comes up not infrequently-is that there's' no hard and fast way to decide what's a science and what isn't.
Not sure I buy this agnosticism but I recall him making it any number of times. Let's see what he says this time-assuming he answers at all.
I'd be shocked if Sumner responds to Egmont at all. You should see his interchanges w/ folks on Noahpinion... when I read them I thought "this guy HAS to have an encounter with MF... that should be fun"
DeleteHere's the weird thing: Egmont got savaged at Noahpinion by an economist commenting there... but just regarding his ideas, not anything personal. Noah erased all the ones directed to Egmont with personal insults (like "seek professional help immediately").
DeleteI've encountered Egmont before on other sites, like Nick Rowe's for example. I was amazed that Nick didn't boot him (maybe he did, but I didn't see it). Nick has low tolerance for nonsense. Now Nick didn't respond to Egmont, but he didn't tell him to get lost either (like he does so often to a few others).
So yes, I'm curious too.
If nothing else, Sumner knows that I tried to drag Egmont over there... telling him about Sumner's open door policy on comments, and that Sumner was probably going to be very interested in his views.
DeleteSo when he sees my latest there (egging Egmont on), he'll know precisely what I'm up to. Lol
Do you have any links to his Noahpinion fights? Ive got to read this guy. LOL
ReplyDeleteHere's where Barkley Rosser 1st has a go at Egmont.
DeleteThat's actually the 1st time I've seen someone pay any attention to him at all.
DeleteMajor should like him: he's verbose
ReplyDeleteMaybe, Tom, you just have to use a different computer with this other use name of yours.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree he and Major are made for each other. MF won't like him lumping Austrianism with the other stuff which MF will totally agree-Marxism. Keynesianism, Walrasian, etc.
Sumner let my "I love tard fights" one through. I wonder why it went to spam? Because I mentioned Major Freedom by name? Because I used the word "tard?"
DeleteSumner has a whole constellation of tards now... It be fun to see a full on tarded free for all.
Deleteconstellation of tards = tardosphere?
DeleteI thought I'd Google it to see if that's a new word... Nope:
"child assaulted with french fries, panic in the tardosphere"
Mike... is Sumner now a [gasp!] Trump Democrat!!!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.themoneyillusion.com/?p=31576#comment-622621
...also check out his comment immediately below.
DeleteThe Liberatarian National Interest also has a piece on the Trump Doctrine. They seem to think it somehow resembles what Reagan did. \
ReplyDeleteSuch is the modern Right. They have no one even worth praising since Ronald Reagan
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-trump-doctrine-peace-through-strength-15631
I actually read some of one of Egmont's papers and a bit of his blog and website (which has fancy graphics, BTW). I don't think he's a tard. He could very well be a crank or a crackpot, or a cranky crackpot [and obviously obnoxious and "pompous" as Rosser says) but I don't think he's tarded. MF though... I'm not so sure about. Check out my indirect jab in the ribs here, where I use commentator (and MF-adversary) "Carl" as an intermediary to deliver my devastating sarcasm. Lol... (maybe I'm the pompous tarded one?)
ReplyDeleteCarl is your sock puppet?
ReplyDeleteNo, Carl is a real person... but something causes me to hesitate directly addressing MF. When I saw Carl arguing with him about that stuff, I saw my opportunity to fake take MF's side.
Delete"I love tard fights" is my sock puppet. :D
DeleteI can understand your hesitancy. He's very dogmatic and wants it his way. Me and him used to have some epic skirmishes but in time I decided it was wasting time I'd never get back.
ReplyDeleteBasically he thought me a state worshipping socialist, etc. I just found him hilarious,
I do still get a kick out of reading him sometimes.
A trick with Major is he likes to have the last word.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what he'll think of me "taking his side." I'm sure he won't like the bit about the magic neuron. Oh well, I should have left the wink ;) off... that might have caused him some dilemma in how to deal with me (if he does). Although maybe he's taking a break... no response from him yet to Egmont's tactless put down.
DeleteHe might like you agreeing with him. He has actually somewhat mellowed out over how he used to be.
DeleteThen he would just call everyone commies and statists and call it a day.
A lot of people now know better than to argue with him too much. They just ignore him.
"They just ignore him." ...like Sumner learned to do 7 years ago. :D
Delete... it's funny how we both assume it's a "him" right? That's the case with most crackpots
DeleteMajor Freedom?
DeleteHe's obviously a male. And he has said things in the past that make it clear-in talking about himself. etc.
I have to admit, I assume almost all crackpots are male until such time as evidence should indicate otherwise. Is that sexist? I just don't think women have what it takes to be a crackpot? Lol
DeleteReminds me when a friend married a woman 9 years his senior, she was very clear that she may have been the old babe, but he was the young fart.
For the most part there aren't too many female libertarian crackpots who would spend the whole day arguing with Scott Sumner about inflation
ReplyDeleteSo true... what's wrong with them?? Women, that is. ;)
Delete