He was there to defend the Oregon occupation and everything. I will say this, it wasn't a bad conversation. I say 'wasn't' but last I checked he was still going. He never gives up but unlike Jeb Bush I have plenty of stamina.
He sent this link of KrisAnne Hall which is pretty scary really. Tom Brown talks about conversations with people you dread and if you watch Ms. Hall in action, it will be clear very quickly that she's one of these.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T424sWq1SkE&feature=youtu.be
She rattles off amendment after amendment that supposedly shows that federal government is acting unconstitutionally in doing anything that the states don't like, etc.
I pointed out to my Twitter buddy that, after all, the Civil War is over and the South lost, and he went into a discussion about how might doesn't make right and that the people's will should have been respected.
This led to my question which he ended up tacitly admitting has no simple answer: who determines the People's Will? Who has the right to speak for them? He then said himself that this is usually determined by war.
So I responded, does this mean he believes Might Makes Right?-as he had accused me of making that argument.
I don't know that this is an easy thing to answer. There is the saying that possession is nine tenths of the law.
He tries to claim that if you believe that Revolutionary War was a good thing-which he insists was not a revolution but a war for independence-in his mind these are different-then you have to also agree with the Civil War.
I told him this doesn't follow in the least. The RW was to establish the Union and the Civil War was to preserve it.
It's funny but al this makes me notice that as a liberal, I am really to paraphrase Donald Trump, the biggest nationalist in the world. Conservatives may want to see liberals don't love our country but to be a real liberal means you believe in America rather than see it splinter into parts.
My Twitter friend Vern did a lot of talking about the Federalist Papers-and of course the Turner Diaries, that was also a favorite book of Timothy McVeigh-when I pointed this out, even Vern laughed.
But I pointed out to him that James Madison who co-wrote the Federalist Papers with Alexander Hamilton, was not exactly pushing for states rights. He had floated the idea that the President would have veto power not just over Congress-and originally, this veto would have been pure, not one that could be overridden-but over state laws as well.
Of course the Southern states would never have allowed that.
P.S. What makes KrisAnne Hall so scary is her fanatical belief. I've talked to Tom about this before. What scares me are not so much egomaniacal opportunists like Trump, but True Believers like Ms. Hall. It's the TBers who are capable of doing something really dangerous. A Trump type at least has a strong sense of self-preservation.
An opportunist is by definition someone who you have an opportunity to do business with.
He sent this link of KrisAnne Hall which is pretty scary really. Tom Brown talks about conversations with people you dread and if you watch Ms. Hall in action, it will be clear very quickly that she's one of these.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T424sWq1SkE&feature=youtu.be
She rattles off amendment after amendment that supposedly shows that federal government is acting unconstitutionally in doing anything that the states don't like, etc.
I pointed out to my Twitter buddy that, after all, the Civil War is over and the South lost, and he went into a discussion about how might doesn't make right and that the people's will should have been respected.
This led to my question which he ended up tacitly admitting has no simple answer: who determines the People's Will? Who has the right to speak for them? He then said himself that this is usually determined by war.
So I responded, does this mean he believes Might Makes Right?-as he had accused me of making that argument.
I don't know that this is an easy thing to answer. There is the saying that possession is nine tenths of the law.
He tries to claim that if you believe that Revolutionary War was a good thing-which he insists was not a revolution but a war for independence-in his mind these are different-then you have to also agree with the Civil War.
I told him this doesn't follow in the least. The RW was to establish the Union and the Civil War was to preserve it.
It's funny but al this makes me notice that as a liberal, I am really to paraphrase Donald Trump, the biggest nationalist in the world. Conservatives may want to see liberals don't love our country but to be a real liberal means you believe in America rather than see it splinter into parts.
My Twitter friend Vern did a lot of talking about the Federalist Papers-and of course the Turner Diaries, that was also a favorite book of Timothy McVeigh-when I pointed this out, even Vern laughed.
But I pointed out to him that James Madison who co-wrote the Federalist Papers with Alexander Hamilton, was not exactly pushing for states rights. He had floated the idea that the President would have veto power not just over Congress-and originally, this veto would have been pure, not one that could be overridden-but over state laws as well.
Of course the Southern states would never have allowed that.
P.S. What makes KrisAnne Hall so scary is her fanatical belief. I've talked to Tom about this before. What scares me are not so much egomaniacal opportunists like Trump, but True Believers like Ms. Hall. It's the TBers who are capable of doing something really dangerous. A Trump type at least has a strong sense of self-preservation.
An opportunist is by definition someone who you have an opportunity to do business with.
"It's the TBers who are capable of doing something really dangerous."
ReplyDeleteI happened to be reading a Wikipedia article yesterday about Colombia's descent into political madness between 1948 and 1957 called "La Violencia."
"Since both camps claimed the existence of some sort of conspiracy, they managed to make the political environment toxic, increasing the animosity and suspicion of the other party."
Sounds a little bit like the "false equivalence" doesn't it? Except that I don't know the situation there, so perhaps it's a TRUE equivalence in this case.
I agree with you about the scariness of some TB's lack of self preservation, but on the other hand people with a strong sense of self preservation don't necessarily NOT deserve the "scary" label. In the case of those conspiracy theories, perhaps some cynical monsters were able to exploit the delusions (while not actually having them themselves)... and the deluded didn't necessarily lack a sense of self preservation. And then (later on) there was Pablo Escobar: helping make the worst conspiracy theories come true. I could see Trump as a Pablo Escobar... although I don't think he's there yet.
I'll take a look at Ms. Hall when I get a chance... if she scares you, then I'm pretty sure she'll scare me!
ReplyDeleteTalking about scary people, it occurred to me that there might be a team of physicists / engineers sweating it out right now in North Korea with headlines like this:
ReplyDelete"First H-bomb test a success, North Korea says, but US agencies cast doubt"
... can you imagine? Maybe they told their "dear leader" something to the effect of "Yes dear leader, our H-bomb was a glorious success!" ... hoping he'd hear the boom and buy it.
More scary TBs:
ReplyDeletehttp://mashable.com/2016/01/06/children-of-isis-islamic-state/#GuRuihooEgqW
I wonder if there will ever evolve into human morality a sense that childhood indoctrination into parental beliefs is not necessarily sacrosanct. It would be a complicated issue certainly. We DO want to indoctrinate them with the 'right' thinking... Lol.
I find it especially creepy how the enemies of radical Islamists are referred to as "unbelievers." As if belief itself is the #1 must-have virtue.
I don't know if Ms. Rubin's ideas belong in the TB category, but her take today on Rubio vs Christie made me laugh, especially thinking of what your reaction might be. Here's a taste:
Delete"It’s the savvy executive against the adroit legislator. ... Gravitas or charm? The blue-collar guy or the policy maven? That’s the choice facing GOP voters looking for a hawkish conservative with concrete reform plans..."
Yes that's exactly the kind of stuff I refer to as Very Serious. In my mind, all conservative Republicans are TBers.
ReplyDelete