The media has had to admit that Hillary was a star last night. Part of it no doubt was that they had lowered expectations so much that it would become obvious that she bares no similarity to the unlikeable, shrewish, defensive, scandal laden disaster they had caricatured her as being for months. Ironically this worked to her advantage.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/10/14/actually-existing-hillary/?module=BlogPost-Title&version=Blog%20Main&contentCollection=Opinion&action=Click&pgtype=Blogs®ion=Body
However, the haters are frustrated by how well she did. Some actually caution that she has that Benghazi Committee testimony coming up-which is rich. After it has been so discredited she is relishing the chance and Trey Gowdy probably dreads it-he had fought like the dickens to keep her testimony private.
In reality:
"The Vegas debate should be sounding alarms in the GOP. One thing seems clear: the new Clinton that emerged last night is unlikely to be taken down by House Republicans poring over her emails."
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/why-the-gop-should-fear-hillary-clinton-14076
Others are laughably still trying to tell us that Biden may still very well run. While the debate was supposed to be the moment of decision-presumably he was waiting for her to fall on her face. Now that she didn't we're told that the debate was never going to be what helped him make up his mind.
Chris Matthews has been one who has been relentless about how he just knows in his gut somehow that Biden will run.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/10/14/actually-existing-hillary/?module=BlogPost-Title&version=Blog%20Main&contentCollection=Opinion&action=Click&pgtype=Blogs®ion=Body
However, the haters are frustrated by how well she did. Some actually caution that she has that Benghazi Committee testimony coming up-which is rich. After it has been so discredited she is relishing the chance and Trey Gowdy probably dreads it-he had fought like the dickens to keep her testimony private.
In reality:
"The Vegas debate should be sounding alarms in the GOP. One thing seems clear: the new Clinton that emerged last night is unlikely to be taken down by House Republicans poring over her emails."
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/why-the-gop-should-fear-hillary-clinton-14076
Others are laughably still trying to tell us that Biden may still very well run. While the debate was supposed to be the moment of decision-presumably he was waiting for her to fall on her face. Now that she didn't we're told that the debate was never going to be what helped him make up his mind.
Chris Matthews has been one who has been relentless about how he just knows in his gut somehow that Biden will run.
Last night it seems like he was kind of overruled on this gut feeling of his by his producers and guests who all say that Biden has no real rationale for running now.
So tonight was his new meme. He is here to tell us that Bernie one the debate. Why? Well because the pundits can be wrong. Yes, we know Chris.
He likens Bernie-Hillary to Bush-Gore. Back then the pundits all said Gore won the third debate but the real Americans rightly got-according to Matthews-that Gore was a geeky know it all that Americans don't like.
Yes that sure worked out well-we got W. Well played Mr. Matthews.
Now he's likening Bernie to W and Hillary to Gore. Right and we should have chosen Gore.
Matthews then cites a Fox News focus group by Frank Luntz. The same focus groups that has gotten the Republican debates wrong at every step of the way.
Michael Tomasky argues that: "The media say Hillary Clinton won; the voters say Bernie Sanders. Neither will persuade the other, but the debate still might be Clinton’s turning point."
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/14/who-will-win-the-post-debate-spin.html
In all fairness, this narrative is possible. After all, the media had so underestimated HRC that she was set to crush expectations and then some. You could argue that many Democratic viewers were seeing Bernie for the first time-unlike a political junkie like me and many who read my blog-and so they didn't find his shtick kind of old hat like those of us who have heard it umpteem times before.
But I still don't get Tomasky's evidence that the voters say Bernie won. I did see a number of online polls that claimed he won in a landslide but these were difficult to take seriously as they also showed Jim Webb beating her handily. Which means either they were rigged or most folks who watched the debate were on a mushroom cloud.
For me I agree with Chris Matthews all that matters is what the polls say in a week but I saw the debaet and believe my own eyes. Bernie did well but she did better.
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2015/10/democratic-debate-analysis-bernie-was.html
Now the first real poll seems to show what I saw.
"The data from Gravis Marketing says that sixty-two percent of democrats believe Hillary Clinton won the debate, while thirty percent believe Bernie Sanders won the debate. Most major national polls has Clinton leading Sanders by about a two to one margin coming into the night, and so the debate doesn’t appear to have caused any net switch in candidate preference. That may have been predictable. But the more interesting part is in the responses about whether democrats have a more or less favorable view of the two candidates after having watched them on television last night."
"Seventy-three percent of democrats say they now have a more favorable opinion of Hillary Clinton after watching the debate. That’s good news for her chances in the general election if she wins the nomination, as it suggests she’d have an easier time of winning over the supporters of other democratic candidates than some have predicted. Sixty-four percent of democrats now say they have a more favorable opinion of Bernie Sanders after watching the debate. That suggests he did well, just not well enough to change any minds. There are five democratic primary debates remaining. The big loser of the debate: Lincoln Chafee, who was tagged as the loser by 43% of democrats, with another 32% believing Jim Webb lost. Full details at the link."
http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/national-polling-hillary-clinton-won-the-debate-decisively-but-bernie-sanders-didnt-lose-it/22813/
I think Biden probably wasn't' running and last night is something of a death knell. He may never say he's not running-at some point we just stop hearing about it. Kind of like when Mario Cuomo was always about to run in 1992.
IMO, Chaffee is done after that absurd gaffe about it was his first day and his dad just passed away when he voted to repeal Glass-Steagall.
Jim Webb is a nice enough guy but he's basically an intelligent Republican-unfortunately smart GOPers aren't welcome in the party anymore. But he doesn't really belong in a Democratic presidential primary.
I actually think O'Malley kind of played a constructive role at least on gun control. So maybe the next debate should just be him, HRC and Bernie.
So tonight was his new meme. He is here to tell us that Bernie one the debate. Why? Well because the pundits can be wrong. Yes, we know Chris.
He likens Bernie-Hillary to Bush-Gore. Back then the pundits all said Gore won the third debate but the real Americans rightly got-according to Matthews-that Gore was a geeky know it all that Americans don't like.
Yes that sure worked out well-we got W. Well played Mr. Matthews.
Now he's likening Bernie to W and Hillary to Gore. Right and we should have chosen Gore.
Matthews then cites a Fox News focus group by Frank Luntz. The same focus groups that has gotten the Republican debates wrong at every step of the way.
Michael Tomasky argues that: "The media say Hillary Clinton won; the voters say Bernie Sanders. Neither will persuade the other, but the debate still might be Clinton’s turning point."
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/14/who-will-win-the-post-debate-spin.html
In all fairness, this narrative is possible. After all, the media had so underestimated HRC that she was set to crush expectations and then some. You could argue that many Democratic viewers were seeing Bernie for the first time-unlike a political junkie like me and many who read my blog-and so they didn't find his shtick kind of old hat like those of us who have heard it umpteem times before.
But I still don't get Tomasky's evidence that the voters say Bernie won. I did see a number of online polls that claimed he won in a landslide but these were difficult to take seriously as they also showed Jim Webb beating her handily. Which means either they were rigged or most folks who watched the debate were on a mushroom cloud.
For me I agree with Chris Matthews all that matters is what the polls say in a week but I saw the debaet and believe my own eyes. Bernie did well but she did better.
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2015/10/democratic-debate-analysis-bernie-was.html
Now the first real poll seems to show what I saw.
"The data from Gravis Marketing says that sixty-two percent of democrats believe Hillary Clinton won the debate, while thirty percent believe Bernie Sanders won the debate. Most major national polls has Clinton leading Sanders by about a two to one margin coming into the night, and so the debate doesn’t appear to have caused any net switch in candidate preference. That may have been predictable. But the more interesting part is in the responses about whether democrats have a more or less favorable view of the two candidates after having watched them on television last night."
"Seventy-three percent of democrats say they now have a more favorable opinion of Hillary Clinton after watching the debate. That’s good news for her chances in the general election if she wins the nomination, as it suggests she’d have an easier time of winning over the supporters of other democratic candidates than some have predicted. Sixty-four percent of democrats now say they have a more favorable opinion of Bernie Sanders after watching the debate. That suggests he did well, just not well enough to change any minds. There are five democratic primary debates remaining. The big loser of the debate: Lincoln Chafee, who was tagged as the loser by 43% of democrats, with another 32% believing Jim Webb lost. Full details at the link."
http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/national-polling-hillary-clinton-won-the-debate-decisively-but-bernie-sanders-didnt-lose-it/22813/
I think Biden probably wasn't' running and last night is something of a death knell. He may never say he's not running-at some point we just stop hearing about it. Kind of like when Mario Cuomo was always about to run in 1992.
IMO, Chaffee is done after that absurd gaffe about it was his first day and his dad just passed away when he voted to repeal Glass-Steagall.
Jim Webb is a nice enough guy but he's basically an intelligent Republican-unfortunately smart GOPers aren't welcome in the party anymore. But he doesn't really belong in a Democratic presidential primary.
I actually think O'Malley kind of played a constructive role at least on gun control. So maybe the next debate should just be him, HRC and Bernie.
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