She's been attacked so much for 'not being authentic' recently, it's rather surprising that this Bernie Maniac at Democratic Underground accuses us Hillary supporters of falling for a 'cult of personality.' In a way it's nice to hear that someone admits she even has a personality!
"This is what I've noticed over the past several months. The vast majority of Sanders supporters whom I've encountered care about Sanders because of his policy substance and consistent track record. They want single-payer healthcare, tuition-free college, strong unions, a living wage, Glass-Steagall to break up the Wall Street banks, opposing the TPP, pay equity for women workers, a financial transactions tax, a carbon tax, investment in rebuilding our infrastructure, making billionaires and large corporations pay their fair share in taxes, more progressive taxation, worker-cooperatives, and overturning Citizens United and having the public financing of elections."
"They care about income and wealth inequality, low social mobility, inequality of opportunity, and the corrosive influence of money in politics. They don't want endless war, and care about protecting our civil liberties. They want to stop private prisons, end mass incarceration, and effect racial justice. They want to end the death penalty. They want to stop the War on Drugs. They care about giving undocumented immigrants a path to citizenship."
"However, most Hillary supporters I know don't care about policy as much. They don't talk about the issues in the same way that Bernie's supporters do. They praise Hillary Clinton because of who she is, her image, and because they simply just like her a lot personally. They want to see a female president. They feel that she's a symbol for the success of women, and that electing her will break down glass ceilings. They think she's an "inspiration" to them. While all of that is great and important (and I'd have loved to have supported Elizabeth Warren for POTUS if she ran), it's surprising how little policy discussion goes on among Hillary supporters. They talk about how "cute" her grand-child is, about her dancing with Ellen, about how Ellen Degeneres praised and supporter her, and so forth. Not a lot of substance beneath the surface. They praise her for being so qualified and hard-working, how she got a degree from Yale Law School, how she was First Lady, a Senator, and Secretary of State, and so forth."
"I don't hear people talking about Keystone XL Pipeline, Citizens United, universal healthcare, the death penalty, institutional racism, for-profit prisons, breaking up the big banks, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, etc., the Iraq War, drone strikes, fracking, and Israel when talking about Hillary. Whether Hillary is a "moderate" as she recently claimed, or a progressive as she claimed before, they don't really care. They just admire Hillary's image and her persona, and don't talk about specific policy as much. They have a strong emotional attachment to her, and people know her because she's famous, and just like her image, so they'll support Hillary regardless of whatever positions she holds"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=588506
This is patently ridiculous that Hillary supporters don't care about issues. Now on TPP and Glass-Steagall there are differences of opinion as well. I think the issue of TPP is debatable-there is a decent case for it.
Many banking experts like Barney Frank see reinstating Glass-Steagall now as closing the barn door after the cows have left the barn.
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/248674-barney-frank-warren-wrong-on-glass-steagall
Breaking up the banks is not a panacea-the UK did it and it's hardly a utopia in any way today for it.
Hillary has discussed issues like college tuition, a proposal for early voting, a plan to deal with the problem of police brutality, a plan to deal to help turn wages around in the Uber economy.
If there is any difference between Hillary and Bernie supporters on issues this is what I think it is. For Bernie fans, every issue is a deal breaker. You can agree with her on 10 issues-and there are many things that she and Bernie agree on. But if she doesn't immediately damn the TPP-then that's it. She's dead to Bernie supporters.
For me, I feel like I know who Hillary is. I've been a big fan of her since 1992 when everybody was killing her for saying she's not Tammy Wynette. Here I am 24 years later still defending her against the relentless anti Hillary echo chamber in the media.
I know where she stands on most issues and I know that I will agree with her on most things. But Bernie fans seem to see every issue as a litmus test.
For me, my goal is not to elect the candidate who talks the most about issues on the stump but who can actually get issues passed in the White House.
It's not about simply stump speeches but the art of actually governing.
If Bernie were elected he'd be much more isolated as he's not a Democrat. I know, Bernie fans don't think anything but a beauty contest for who is the truest progressive is all that matters.
But in the dirty real world of actual politics you need a party to get things done. Many Congressional Democrats would not work with him nearly as much.
And I still want to know why he's running as a Democrat with all the disdain he has heaped on this party for years. Does he now think there is a difference between the two parties? If not then why run as a Democrat?
You know what issue matters a lot to me? A woman's right to choose which is more or less outlawed in many GOP states. If there is any hope of pushing back we'll need a liberal Supreme Court for the first time since the early 80s. So to me what matters most is to elect a Democrat-which Democrat is not nearly as important as that we have a Democrat as any Democrat is better than another Bush-who is worse than his brother on things like abortion-he thinks that rape victims shouldn't have abortions- and Medicare-or Scott Walker who thinks that even if the life of the mother is in danger she still should be prohibited from having an abortion.
I also care about immigration and gun control where Bernie's record is a little more ambiguous.
So issues matter-if I didn't agree with Hillary on most issues I wouldn't support her-and wouldn't be a Democrat. For me when I vote it's more like voters in parliamentary democracies in Europe. I vote more for parties than the vagaries of this candidate vs. the other.
I'm less concerned with discovering the 'true progressive'-many Bernie fans just repeat that this is what he is again and again-but rather getting the party elected where any of its candidates will be better than the GOP.
"This is what I've noticed over the past several months. The vast majority of Sanders supporters whom I've encountered care about Sanders because of his policy substance and consistent track record. They want single-payer healthcare, tuition-free college, strong unions, a living wage, Glass-Steagall to break up the Wall Street banks, opposing the TPP, pay equity for women workers, a financial transactions tax, a carbon tax, investment in rebuilding our infrastructure, making billionaires and large corporations pay their fair share in taxes, more progressive taxation, worker-cooperatives, and overturning Citizens United and having the public financing of elections."
"They care about income and wealth inequality, low social mobility, inequality of opportunity, and the corrosive influence of money in politics. They don't want endless war, and care about protecting our civil liberties. They want to stop private prisons, end mass incarceration, and effect racial justice. They want to end the death penalty. They want to stop the War on Drugs. They care about giving undocumented immigrants a path to citizenship."
"However, most Hillary supporters I know don't care about policy as much. They don't talk about the issues in the same way that Bernie's supporters do. They praise Hillary Clinton because of who she is, her image, and because they simply just like her a lot personally. They want to see a female president. They feel that she's a symbol for the success of women, and that electing her will break down glass ceilings. They think she's an "inspiration" to them. While all of that is great and important (and I'd have loved to have supported Elizabeth Warren for POTUS if she ran), it's surprising how little policy discussion goes on among Hillary supporters. They talk about how "cute" her grand-child is, about her dancing with Ellen, about how Ellen Degeneres praised and supporter her, and so forth. Not a lot of substance beneath the surface. They praise her for being so qualified and hard-working, how she got a degree from Yale Law School, how she was First Lady, a Senator, and Secretary of State, and so forth."
"I don't hear people talking about Keystone XL Pipeline, Citizens United, universal healthcare, the death penalty, institutional racism, for-profit prisons, breaking up the big banks, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, etc., the Iraq War, drone strikes, fracking, and Israel when talking about Hillary. Whether Hillary is a "moderate" as she recently claimed, or a progressive as she claimed before, they don't really care. They just admire Hillary's image and her persona, and don't talk about specific policy as much. They have a strong emotional attachment to her, and people know her because she's famous, and just like her image, so they'll support Hillary regardless of whatever positions she holds"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=588506
This is patently ridiculous that Hillary supporters don't care about issues. Now on TPP and Glass-Steagall there are differences of opinion as well. I think the issue of TPP is debatable-there is a decent case for it.
Many banking experts like Barney Frank see reinstating Glass-Steagall now as closing the barn door after the cows have left the barn.
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/248674-barney-frank-warren-wrong-on-glass-steagall
Breaking up the banks is not a panacea-the UK did it and it's hardly a utopia in any way today for it.
Hillary has discussed issues like college tuition, a proposal for early voting, a plan to deal with the problem of police brutality, a plan to deal to help turn wages around in the Uber economy.
If there is any difference between Hillary and Bernie supporters on issues this is what I think it is. For Bernie fans, every issue is a deal breaker. You can agree with her on 10 issues-and there are many things that she and Bernie agree on. But if she doesn't immediately damn the TPP-then that's it. She's dead to Bernie supporters.
For me, I feel like I know who Hillary is. I've been a big fan of her since 1992 when everybody was killing her for saying she's not Tammy Wynette. Here I am 24 years later still defending her against the relentless anti Hillary echo chamber in the media.
I know where she stands on most issues and I know that I will agree with her on most things. But Bernie fans seem to see every issue as a litmus test.
For me, my goal is not to elect the candidate who talks the most about issues on the stump but who can actually get issues passed in the White House.
It's not about simply stump speeches but the art of actually governing.
If Bernie were elected he'd be much more isolated as he's not a Democrat. I know, Bernie fans don't think anything but a beauty contest for who is the truest progressive is all that matters.
But in the dirty real world of actual politics you need a party to get things done. Many Congressional Democrats would not work with him nearly as much.
And I still want to know why he's running as a Democrat with all the disdain he has heaped on this party for years. Does he now think there is a difference between the two parties? If not then why run as a Democrat?
You know what issue matters a lot to me? A woman's right to choose which is more or less outlawed in many GOP states. If there is any hope of pushing back we'll need a liberal Supreme Court for the first time since the early 80s. So to me what matters most is to elect a Democrat-which Democrat is not nearly as important as that we have a Democrat as any Democrat is better than another Bush-who is worse than his brother on things like abortion-he thinks that rape victims shouldn't have abortions- and Medicare-or Scott Walker who thinks that even if the life of the mother is in danger she still should be prohibited from having an abortion.
I also care about immigration and gun control where Bernie's record is a little more ambiguous.
So issues matter-if I didn't agree with Hillary on most issues I wouldn't support her-and wouldn't be a Democrat. For me when I vote it's more like voters in parliamentary democracies in Europe. I vote more for parties than the vagaries of this candidate vs. the other.
I'm less concerned with discovering the 'true progressive'-many Bernie fans just repeat that this is what he is again and again-but rather getting the party elected where any of its candidates will be better than the GOP.
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