With Ben Carson's suggestion that a Muslim President couldn't be trusted to accept and practice that separation it obscures the fact that traditionally conservative Republicans have never believed in such a separation.
Remember how much time Reagan spent palling around with Jerry Fallwell and Pat Roberstson? And the father of the modern conservative movement, William F. Buckley, advocated a state religion in his manifesto, God and Man at Yale.
http://www.amazon.com/God-Man-Yale-Superstitions-Academic/dp/089526692X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1443102391&sr=8-1&keywords=god+and+man+at+yale
The GOP wants the Pope to give aid and comfort to their push to defund Planned Parenthood much like the had Netanyahu come in and try to sink the President's Iran deal.
But after hearing the Pope talk yesterday, they are pretty glad that his words don't have the force of law like in the Middle Ages anymore.
"If Francis' remarks at the White House are a guide, the pontiff will have plenty to say to Boehner and the GOP-led Congress."For John Boehner, who attended Mass nearly every morning while growing up with 11 siblings in southwest Ohio, the chance to meet privately with Pope Francis before the Roman Catholic leader addresses Congress on Thursday fulfills a long-cherished dream."
Ok, so Pope Francis is about to address Congress. Even for me as a non Catholic-and atheist-this is an exciting moment.
The Pope is someone who has always been able to influence earthly affairs by claiming to live above them.
We forget how close his power and earthly power once worked.
If this Pope is a harbinger of things to come then expect in the future for the Church to move even further from the GOP.
A good Irish Catholic like Chris Matthews was just saying he doesn't see how the Church keeps women out of the priesthood forever.
The Church has been such a successful institution-despite or because of their Heavenly message, the most successful institution of all time-by knowing when and where to adapt. At some point they may have to adapt further.
Ok. I've paused the DVR but it's time to watch his speech to Congress.
Again, to understand Catholic theology and philosophy, Garry Wills is where to go.
http://www.amazon.com/Future-Catholic-Church-Pope-Francis-ebook/dp/B00LFZ8S3A/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1443014022&sr=1-1&keywords=garry+wills+catholicism
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Priests-Tradition-Garry-Wills-ebook/dp/B008EKMAKG/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1443103026&sr=1-1&keywords=garry+wills+priests
I'll talk to you later, after the speech.
Remember how much time Reagan spent palling around with Jerry Fallwell and Pat Roberstson? And the father of the modern conservative movement, William F. Buckley, advocated a state religion in his manifesto, God and Man at Yale.
http://www.amazon.com/God-Man-Yale-Superstitions-Academic/dp/089526692X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1443102391&sr=8-1&keywords=god+and+man+at+yale
The GOP wants the Pope to give aid and comfort to their push to defund Planned Parenthood much like the had Netanyahu come in and try to sink the President's Iran deal.
But after hearing the Pope talk yesterday, they are pretty glad that his words don't have the force of law like in the Middle Ages anymore.
"If Francis' remarks at the White House are a guide, the pontiff will have plenty to say to Boehner and the GOP-led Congress."For John Boehner, who attended Mass nearly every morning while growing up with 11 siblings in southwest Ohio, the chance to meet privately with Pope Francis before the Roman Catholic leader addresses Congress on Thursday fulfills a long-cherished dream."
“It will be pretty awesome,” the House speaker said in an interview with POLITICO. “I hope I’ve got more to say to him than he has to say to me. He might have a message for me.”
"It may not be a message that Boehner the Republican politician wants to hear. As Congress prepares for the pope’s historic address — the mere planning of which has been a “huge undertaking,” Boehner said — lawmakers are feeling both anticipation and trepidation."
"Francis’ views don’t fit neatly into either party, but on Wednesday, as he spoke alongside President Barack Obama at the White House, his liberal side was clearly on display."
"The 78-year-old pontiff praised the Democratic president for pursuing an initiative to tackle climate change. And within seconds of noting America is a nation built by immigrants, Francis said that in his speech to Congress he hoped “to offer words of encouragement to those called to guide the nation’s political future in fidelity to its founding principles.”
"The comments underscore Francis’ willingness to wade into sensitive political territory, even in front of a legislative body whose majority party is resistant to many of his priorities, especially dealing with climate change and reforming the immigration system."
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/pope-congress-213986#ixzz3mfE0DP8W
"It may not be a message that Boehner the Republican politician wants to hear. As Congress prepares for the pope’s historic address — the mere planning of which has been a “huge undertaking,” Boehner said — lawmakers are feeling both anticipation and trepidation."
"Francis’ views don’t fit neatly into either party, but on Wednesday, as he spoke alongside President Barack Obama at the White House, his liberal side was clearly on display."
"The 78-year-old pontiff praised the Democratic president for pursuing an initiative to tackle climate change. And within seconds of noting America is a nation built by immigrants, Francis said that in his speech to Congress he hoped “to offer words of encouragement to those called to guide the nation’s political future in fidelity to its founding principles.”
"The comments underscore Francis’ willingness to wade into sensitive political territory, even in front of a legislative body whose majority party is resistant to many of his priorities, especially dealing with climate change and reforming the immigration system."
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/pope-congress-213986#ixzz3mfE0DP8W
Ok, so Pope Francis is about to address Congress. Even for me as a non Catholic-and atheist-this is an exciting moment.
The Pope is someone who has always been able to influence earthly affairs by claiming to live above them.
We forget how close his power and earthly power once worked.
If this Pope is a harbinger of things to come then expect in the future for the Church to move even further from the GOP.
A good Irish Catholic like Chris Matthews was just saying he doesn't see how the Church keeps women out of the priesthood forever.
The Church has been such a successful institution-despite or because of their Heavenly message, the most successful institution of all time-by knowing when and where to adapt. At some point they may have to adapt further.
Ok. I've paused the DVR but it's time to watch his speech to Congress.
Again, to understand Catholic theology and philosophy, Garry Wills is where to go.
http://www.amazon.com/Future-Catholic-Church-Pope-Francis-ebook/dp/B00LFZ8S3A/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1443014022&sr=1-1&keywords=garry+wills+catholicism
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Priests-Tradition-Garry-Wills-ebook/dp/B008EKMAKG/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1443103026&sr=1-1&keywords=garry+wills+priests
I'll talk to you later, after the speech.
Sometimes I wonder if we wouldn't have been better off with a state religion as well... putting the stamp of the state on it probably undermines all religion to some extent. The UK has a state religion and so do governments in Germany (from what I understand... I say "governments" because it might be at less than the national level... I recall reading comments from a German man complaining about his taxes used to support the state church... but perhaps by "state" he meant Munich, etc).
ReplyDeleteNOT that I advocate adopting a state religion now.
I'm relieved that you're an atheist Mike. Not that I'd stop reading if you weren't... it's just that I'm not a "firebrand atheist" like this guy. I don't enjoy getting in people's faces on the subject, except if they're being an ass (although Dave Silverman is fun to watch!). I prefer to build alliances with moderate believers where possible. It's really fundamentalism that freaks me out. I grew up in a society of believers, but I didn't encounter any fundamentalism there.
But still, now I can "let my guard down" a bit and not have to actively avoid "disrespecting your faith." Perhaps I shouldn't worry about that in general, but I can't help it: it's my personality.
BTW, that was my Ken Miller meme in that link. I used to make stuff like that for encounters with fundies and young Earth creationists on Yahoo answers. I've got a LOT more where that came from.
Just this morning I received an email from philosopher Peter Boghossian's group putting together an app called "Atheos." They need beta testers. I tried it out a little already this morning. Peter isn't really a "firebrand" but he's sick to death of faith. He thinks faith is an unreliable epistemology, and those that are overly reliant on it shouldn't be at the "adult's table." He thinks they belong at the "kid's table." He has some people following his lead as "street epistemologists." They are fun to watch. For example, this guy. I don't think I have the mettle for that, but I'm intrigued by the concept. I think the idea of Atheos is to give you a feel for that, but from the comfort and safety of your cell phone... Lol. Simulated street epistemology, so to speak.
Well I'm an atheist who was raised in a very religious household. Even now I don't tell my mother I'm an atheist just an agnostic. My reason is I don't want a debate over it.
ReplyDeleteBesides agnostic seems less harsh for believers. You aren't telling them you know there' sno God just that you don't know that there is.
I don't really mind if others believe as long as they don't try to shove it down my throat. I accept that a lot of people need God Talk to make life make sense for them and that's ok.
Here's a little secret: How did I become an atheist? Will you believe through reading Nietzsche?
I would guess that Sumner's an atheist or agnostic but can't be certain. I can't ask him that as his guard is always up with me but maybe you could
On the other hand I am interested in the idea of the philosophy of religion. Religion to me is fascinating in an anthropological sense.
ReplyDeleteWhile I don't believe in God he is arguably man's most impressive creation.
The implications of belief in God are:
1. Ethical. Theists have worried that people will lose their morality without belief. Obviously you and I don't go around killing, raping, and maiming just because we don't believe.
Still, you could argue that mankind in its infancy needed God to build the moral sense even if we don't need it anymore.
2. Our ontological sense of our existence, our Being in the World (Heidegger.
3. Like I said I give the Church props for being such a powerful institution for so long. As it preaches against worldly power it has amassed more worldly power than anyone!