Obviously what happened at Trump's speech kind of confirms the worst kept secret in the world: that a lot of his supporters are bigots who hate not just Latino immigrants, but Asians, and yes Muslims and furthermore they are birthers.
I notice that Chris Mathews and later Lawrence O'Donnell made it a point of honor to contrast John McCain's reaction to that older woman who told him in 2008 that she didn't like Obama because 'He's an Arabl'-the way McCain put her right and said that he's a good family man they just disagree on some important issues and Trump's response that while not directly condoning it didn't come out and condemn it either.
Of course, a cynic could point out that McCain's heroism didn't pay-he lost-and Trump looked to me like he was rather uneasy with the question but felt like he had to kind of roll with it.
But I think that Matthews certainly also wants to delude himself in acting like Trump is just this fringe outlier and that not to many Republicans agree with him.
This is wishful thinking. The numbers show that 66% of Trump supporters think the President is a Muslim, along with 54% of Republicans, and 28% of Americans.
In the Republican party, then this is not a fringe view.
And I get the comparison to McCain but just because did what he knew was expected and repudiated such blatant racism, doesn't change the fact that he is the senior Senator from Arizona who would later pass that really draconian anti immigration bill-the papers please law. McCain was a supporter of it and a prominent one.
This is my point. Lawrence O'Donnell argued that the other GOPers on that stage last night would have known to do as McCain did in 2008.
That''s probably true for most of them, yes. Yet, they still support some very draconian anti immigration policies.
I will argue that Trump's immigration ideas are mainstream in the Republican party. But I feel like the media still wants to just attack this one rather striking symptom of this-the Trump phenomenon.
I don't admire this media campaign against Trump as I think it stems from the idea that before Trump came things were fine on immigration and bigotry, etc.
They just want to get rid of Trump and go back to the old status quo of GOPers knowing not to go too far in their rhetoric but still pushing awful immigration policies.
The old status quo where GOP candidates including Jeb who would just say they believe in immigration reform but that it starts with the border but of course the border is never secure was an intolerable status quo.
Getting rid of Trump is not a good thing if it just means we go back to that.
Overall, the Beltway press seems to want to make Trump an outlier and thereby suggest that the rest of the party is reasonable on immigration.
P.S. Stuart Stevens-Mitt Romney's campaign manager!-is going on about how Trump couldn't get elected Governor anywhere. I don't know about that Stuart.
If Maine elected Paul Lapage, they'll elect anyone.
I notice that Chris Mathews and later Lawrence O'Donnell made it a point of honor to contrast John McCain's reaction to that older woman who told him in 2008 that she didn't like Obama because 'He's an Arabl'-the way McCain put her right and said that he's a good family man they just disagree on some important issues and Trump's response that while not directly condoning it didn't come out and condemn it either.
Of course, a cynic could point out that McCain's heroism didn't pay-he lost-and Trump looked to me like he was rather uneasy with the question but felt like he had to kind of roll with it.
But I think that Matthews certainly also wants to delude himself in acting like Trump is just this fringe outlier and that not to many Republicans agree with him.
This is wishful thinking. The numbers show that 66% of Trump supporters think the President is a Muslim, along with 54% of Republicans, and 28% of Americans.
In the Republican party, then this is not a fringe view.
And I get the comparison to McCain but just because did what he knew was expected and repudiated such blatant racism, doesn't change the fact that he is the senior Senator from Arizona who would later pass that really draconian anti immigration bill-the papers please law. McCain was a supporter of it and a prominent one.
This is my point. Lawrence O'Donnell argued that the other GOPers on that stage last night would have known to do as McCain did in 2008.
That''s probably true for most of them, yes. Yet, they still support some very draconian anti immigration policies.
I will argue that Trump's immigration ideas are mainstream in the Republican party. But I feel like the media still wants to just attack this one rather striking symptom of this-the Trump phenomenon.
I don't admire this media campaign against Trump as I think it stems from the idea that before Trump came things were fine on immigration and bigotry, etc.
They just want to get rid of Trump and go back to the old status quo of GOPers knowing not to go too far in their rhetoric but still pushing awful immigration policies.
The old status quo where GOP candidates including Jeb who would just say they believe in immigration reform but that it starts with the border but of course the border is never secure was an intolerable status quo.
Getting rid of Trump is not a good thing if it just means we go back to that.
Overall, the Beltway press seems to want to make Trump an outlier and thereby suggest that the rest of the party is reasonable on immigration.
P.S. Stuart Stevens-Mitt Romney's campaign manager!-is going on about how Trump couldn't get elected Governor anywhere. I don't know about that Stuart.
If Maine elected Paul Lapage, they'll elect anyone.
Here's the important difference between McCain and Trump in this particular case though: however bad the laws are that McCain has supported, it is not relevant to the particular difference in this case. When McCain was confronted with full on delusional insanity from a supporter he was uncomfortable enough (for whatever reason: I don't care what it was), to do something to dispel the insanity. Trump may have been uncomfortable but didn't do anything. He rolled with it. These are basic facts about reality, and he still rolled with the delusional insanity rather than confront it. To me it's no different than if the deluded fool had said the Earth was flat and that it was a big conspiracy of liberal Satan worshipers who denied this and instead pushed the un-Biblical spherical Earth hoax, and Trump had responded "Yes, I'm concerned about these liberal Bible-hating Satan worshiping 'scientists' and their lies as well, and I promise my administration will launch a full investigation and bring these scientist traitors to justice!"
ReplyDeleteIn other words, on this particular point Trump sounds like he was encouraging full on insanity and delusional thinking about basic facts of reality. That is inexcusable under any circumstances. Absolutely no good can possibly come from that.
Now, on balance, when we consider all the delusional thinking that goes on in the GOP on all kinds of topics, perhaps Trump is no worse than anyone else, and perhaps he's even significantly better overall. That might be true, but it doesn't excuse him here.
It's not about excusing Trump here. My point is that many are trying to excuse the GOP by just criticizing Trump.
ReplyDeleteAnd at the end of the day, laws that allowed the police to harrass anyone that looked Latino y demanding proof of citiznehship is intolerable.
At the end of the day policies matter. Even in Germany they never talked about the concentration camps.
If someone had that might have been good to start closing them down.
Too many people in my view aren't bothered about the concentration camps they're just worried about being impolite and mentioning them in public.
My problem if you just shut that up they are still there.
Like Chris Matthews in listening to him last night just wants to delude himself. He insists that just a minority of Republicans still believe Obama isn't an American. Wrong. 66% of Trump supporters think that's a fact but 54% of Republicans do.
ReplyDeleteSo Trump is not an outlier. I want to solve the problem. I want a rational, and humane immigration system in America.
I want amnesty. We don't get that by shutting Trump up.
I think the thing with me, Tom, is that I'm a Conequentialist in morality. To me, motives are way overblown in the minds of a lot of very pious people. I always try to game out what each course actually gets us.
http://www.rit.edu/~w-ethics/resources/manuals/dgae1p10.html
My problem with the hold attitude of the press is they aren't bothered by bigotry they are fine if its practiced just be discreet about it.
I agree that my view in an outlier. But to me McCain may have realized pure craziness when he heard it-it looked to me like Trump was a little uncomfortable but rightfully gets that if he criticizes such wild talk, his base will feel differently about him-but he thought the Papers Please law was Kosher.
ReplyDeleteTo me then just censoring Trunp and going back to listening reverently to Jeb and Carly is for from being progress actually a regression.
Again, to me having racist or nativistic policies but not saying that's what you're going to do on the stump is not in my mind a reason to admire such folk's restraint in knowing not to tell us about it.
Then you have to see Trump not as a Cause but an Effect of years of GOP dog whistling.
ReplyDeleteNow someone, decides to use a megaphone like Wallace used to do.
Understand my point is that Trump enables the GOP to own nativism, own draconian immigration laws indeed to own wanting an end to birth right citizenship-that even Lindsay Graham would like and has said so.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/122842/republican-party-has-given-hispanics