In discussing Matthews with Tom Brown I remembered that. Tom was talking about not being happy with the job Matthews did Friday night.
"One funny thing, Matthews let slip the word "Americans" when describing the pro-Trump protesters. Ann Coulter was one guest and she jumped on that, agreeing they were the Americans vs the un-Americans. Chris spent the rest of the broadcast apologizing for that slip. I was just rolling my eyes..."
"That segment ended with Ann and another woman talking over each other. He just had to cut them off."
"And while I thought he went overboard on his apologizing, on one other point I couldn't believe how dense he was. That woman arguing with Ann at the end pointed out to chris that net immigration from Mexico is near zero and that the Obama administration has been very aggressive in deportations... Much more so than Bush... But Chris kept saying "yeah, I've heard that before, but who on the liberal side is saying they're going to do something about it? What are the proposals on the left?" ... The guest was rightfully dumbfounded by that statement. Let's see, Obama is aggressively enforcing the law and objectively immigration is now zero. Wtf is the problem? She already answered you Chris. I've noticed recently that he sometimes doesn't seem to understand what people are saying to him. Not all the time, but maybe once per broadcast he either hears something that wasn't there, or fails to hear a direct response. Old age maybe? Lol
https://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2016/05/donald-trump-attacks-mexican-judge-in.html?showComment=1464466257141#c9123322716037722899
It sounds like Matthews really stepped in it more than once. However, then I remembered his Town Hall meeting with Trump in March where Matthews really got to Trump in a way that few other moderators or interviewers did.
As Hillary says, Trump is a huge recruitment tool for ISIS.
MATTHEWS: But in principle, the person who hires someone illegally -- I'm not talking about leaf-raking out in front of the house or helping to push the snow out of the way. I'm talking about somebody who hires them to save money on labor.
"You bring in somebody into the country, you give them a free -- you're basically encouraging illegal immigration, because that's why this guy or woman is coming here, right? Isn't that right?"
TRUMP: You can -- yes, and you can solve the problem with e-verify. And other systems...
MATTHEWS: Well, why doesn't your party and you back that?
TRUMP: Well, I back it, and my party backs it.
MATTHEWS: No, they don't.
TRUMP: Many -- well, many people...
MATTHEWS: Ryan won't even bring it up on the floor.
TRUMP: Well, but many people in the party do that.
MATTHEWS: Ryan's not -- they're not trustworthy. They're not bringing it up. They talk a line about illegal immigration, they want to play these games.
TRUMP: Like I said, there are many people...
"One funny thing, Matthews let slip the word "Americans" when describing the pro-Trump protesters. Ann Coulter was one guest and she jumped on that, agreeing they were the Americans vs the un-Americans. Chris spent the rest of the broadcast apologizing for that slip. I was just rolling my eyes..."
"That segment ended with Ann and another woman talking over each other. He just had to cut them off."
"And while I thought he went overboard on his apologizing, on one other point I couldn't believe how dense he was. That woman arguing with Ann at the end pointed out to chris that net immigration from Mexico is near zero and that the Obama administration has been very aggressive in deportations... Much more so than Bush... But Chris kept saying "yeah, I've heard that before, but who on the liberal side is saying they're going to do something about it? What are the proposals on the left?" ... The guest was rightfully dumbfounded by that statement. Let's see, Obama is aggressively enforcing the law and objectively immigration is now zero. Wtf is the problem? She already answered you Chris. I've noticed recently that he sometimes doesn't seem to understand what people are saying to him. Not all the time, but maybe once per broadcast he either hears something that wasn't there, or fails to hear a direct response. Old age maybe? Lol
https://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2016/05/donald-trump-attacks-mexican-judge-in.html?showComment=1464466257141#c9123322716037722899
It sounds like Matthews really stepped in it more than once. However, then I remembered his Town Hall meeting with Trump in March where Matthews really got to Trump in a way that few other moderators or interviewers did.
He somehow would confuse Trump and yet get him to drop his guard and say the wrong thing-like that women need to be punished for abortion.
It was the way Matthews asked it-and also because Trump as usual was just winging it and didnt'' understand the way the pro life movement spins things well enough.
When Matthews tried to get him, Trump as usual tried to change the subject by pointing out that Matthews as a Catholic also is supposed to be pro life.
But Matthews had a good answer: 'Yeah, but that's religion. You're running for the law, you're about the law. What do you do if a woman has an abortion?'
Trump was a bit off balance: "Well, there'd have to be a punishment, there'd have to be a fine.'
Matthews: "A fine?! For Murder?"
Trump: 'Well we'd have to go back to women having back alley abortions. But there's be punishment, people would have to go to jail.'
That was not the only thing Matthews got him on either.
Take, for instance, this conversation they had on using nuclear weapons:
MATTHEWS: Where would we drop -- where would we drop a nuclear weapon in the Middle East?
TRUMP: Let me explain. Let me explain.
Somebody hits us within ISIS, you wouldn't fight back with a nuke?
MATTHEWS: No. To drop a nuclear weapon on a community of people that are...
TRUMP: No, no, but you can't say -- first of all, you don't want to say, "Take everything off the table..."
MATTHEWS: No, just nuclear.
TRUMP: ... because you'd be a bad negotiator if you do that.
MATTHEWS: Just nuclear.
TRUMP: Look, nuclear should be off the table. But would there be a time when it could be used, possibly, possibly?
It was the way Matthews asked it-and also because Trump as usual was just winging it and didnt'' understand the way the pro life movement spins things well enough.
When Matthews tried to get him, Trump as usual tried to change the subject by pointing out that Matthews as a Catholic also is supposed to be pro life.
But Matthews had a good answer: 'Yeah, but that's religion. You're running for the law, you're about the law. What do you do if a woman has an abortion?'
Trump was a bit off balance: "Well, there'd have to be a punishment, there'd have to be a fine.'
Matthews: "A fine?! For Murder?"
Trump: 'Well we'd have to go back to women having back alley abortions. But there's be punishment, people would have to go to jail.'
That was not the only thing Matthews got him on either.
Take, for instance, this conversation they had on using nuclear weapons:
MATTHEWS: Where would we drop -- where would we drop a nuclear weapon in the Middle East?
TRUMP: Let me explain. Let me explain.
Somebody hits us within ISIS, you wouldn't fight back with a nuke?
MATTHEWS: No. To drop a nuclear weapon on a community of people that are...
TRUMP: No, no, but you can't say -- first of all, you don't want to say, "Take everything off the table..."
MATTHEWS: No, just nuclear.
TRUMP: ... because you'd be a bad negotiator if you do that.
MATTHEWS: Just nuclear.
TRUMP: Look, nuclear should be off the table. But would there be a time when it could be used, possibly, possibly?
MATTHEWS: OK. The trouble is, when you said that, the whole world heard it. David Cameron in Britain heard it. The Japanese, where we bombed them in '45, heard it. They're hearing a guy running for president of the United States talking of maybe using nuclear weapons. Nobody wants to hear that about an American president.
TRUMP: Then why are we making them? Why do we make them? We had (inaudible).
TRUMP: Then why are we making them? Why do we make them? We had (inaudible).
http://info.msnbc.com/_news/2016/03/30/35330907-full-transcript-msnbc-town-hall-with-donald-trump-moderated-by-chris-matthews?lite
How would that look in an ad? Just playing that clip? Trump's attitude is 'Gee, we make these wonderful nuclear weapons, we've got to use them.'
Last week Chuck Todd said the politics of fear won't get people to the polls. That depends. Some it will, some it won't. For those it won't, Hillary has other things to offer them.
In 1964 it certainly did. I mean after seeing this clip, it's time to dust off LBJ's Daisy ad.
MATTHEWS: Can you tell the Middle East we're not using a nuclear weapon on anybody?
TRUMP: I would never say that. I would never take any of my cards off the table.
MATTHEWS: How about Europe? We won't use it in Europe?
TRUMP: I -- I'm not going to take it off the table.
MATTHEWS: You might use it in Europe?
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: No, I don't think so. But I'm not taking...
MATTHEWS: Well, just say it. "I will never use a nuclear weapon in Europe."
TRUMP: I am not -- I am not taking cards off the table.
MATTHEWS: OK.
"The trouble is, the sane people hear you and the insane people are not affected by your threats. That's the trouble. The real fanatics say, "Good. Keep it up."
How would that look in an ad? Just playing that clip? Trump's attitude is 'Gee, we make these wonderful nuclear weapons, we've got to use them.'
Last week Chuck Todd said the politics of fear won't get people to the polls. That depends. Some it will, some it won't. For those it won't, Hillary has other things to offer them.
In 1964 it certainly did. I mean after seeing this clip, it's time to dust off LBJ's Daisy ad.
MATTHEWS: Can you tell the Middle East we're not using a nuclear weapon on anybody?
TRUMP: I would never say that. I would never take any of my cards off the table.
MATTHEWS: How about Europe? We won't use it in Europe?
TRUMP: I -- I'm not going to take it off the table.
MATTHEWS: You might use it in Europe?
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: No, I don't think so. But I'm not taking...
MATTHEWS: Well, just say it. "I will never use a nuclear weapon in Europe."
TRUMP: I am not -- I am not taking cards off the table.
MATTHEWS: OK.
"The trouble is, the sane people hear you and the insane people are not affected by your threats. That's the trouble. The real fanatics say, "Good. Keep it up."
As Hillary says, Trump is a huge recruitment tool for ISIS.
MATTHEWS: But in principle, the person who hires someone illegally -- I'm not talking about leaf-raking out in front of the house or helping to push the snow out of the way. I'm talking about somebody who hires them to save money on labor.
"You bring in somebody into the country, you give them a free -- you're basically encouraging illegal immigration, because that's why this guy or woman is coming here, right? Isn't that right?"
TRUMP: You can -- yes, and you can solve the problem with e-verify. And other systems...
MATTHEWS: Well, why doesn't your party and you back that?
TRUMP: Well, I back it, and my party backs it.
MATTHEWS: No, they don't.
TRUMP: Many -- well, many people...
MATTHEWS: Ryan won't even bring it up on the floor.
TRUMP: Well, but many people in the party do that.
MATTHEWS: Ryan's not -- they're not trustworthy. They're not bringing it up. They talk a line about illegal immigration, they want to play these games.
TRUMP: Like I said, there are many people...
MATTHEWS: They like the cheap labor.
TRUMP: And there are many people...
MATTHEWS: Don't they?
TRUMP: Well, they -- they do in one way, but many people don't, they don't want it.
TRUMP: And there are many people...
MATTHEWS: Don't they?
TRUMP: Well, they -- they do in one way, but many people don't, they don't want it.
You know, what, labor -- labor is one thing.
MATTHEWS: The regular working guy doesn't want it, but the business guys, the corporate leaders want the cheap labor.
"The business guys want cheap labor, one of these being Donald Trump who has used illegal immigrant labor on his own hotels."
Again, these are just a few exchanges. I'm not being exhaustive here. Look at all the great ads the Matthews Town Hall provides.
Chris Matthews may have had a bad night last night but he was on fire back in March.
MATTHEWS: The regular working guy doesn't want it, but the business guys, the corporate leaders want the cheap labor.
"The business guys want cheap labor, one of these being Donald Trump who has used illegal immigrant labor on his own hotels."
Again, these are just a few exchanges. I'm not being exhaustive here. Look at all the great ads the Matthews Town Hall provides.
Chris Matthews may have had a bad night last night but he was on fire back in March.
Agreed!... I do like Matthews, which is why I watch. I think he has a political sense that I lack sometimes. Even in asking repeatedly last night "yeah yeah, but who among the Dems is proposing something?" perhaps there's an insight there: perhaps the Dems need to emphasize that they are indeed doing something, and by objective measures it's working. If the sympathetic ear of Matthews isn't getting that message it's doubtful anyone to the right of him is. And maybe HRC does need to offer a sensible border security plan in contrast to Trump. Maybe people need to hear that Dems indeed do take border security seriously.
ReplyDeleteAfter the CA primary (which I hope she wins) perhaps she can move a bit to the right on immigration.
DeleteMatthews does have a very good political sense.
DeleteHowever, on immigration it would be very difficult for her to go to the Right on immigration.
The Dem debate went very far Left on immigration.
Remember the key is knowing who your key voter groups are and getting as many out as possible.
Her base are Hispanics not the whites who don't like immigration. That's Trump's bread and butter.
She needs the Hispanic base to be as motivated as Trump's angry white base.
She can't focus on the angry white base.
If you're like one of those Right wing guys that argue with Sumner, nothing Hillary can ever say will please them next to what Trump says
Here's what I suspect that Matthews had in mind, and what I mean by moving a bit to the right on immigration. I think Matthews has this in mind because he's brought it up before:
Delete1. Acknowledge the "progress" that the Obama admin had made in securing the border. Point out that net immigration across the Southern border is close to zero and that Obama has dramatically increased aggressive deportations and enforcement in general. Praise him for this, while proposing some tweaks: perhaps to soften the deportation angle (to appease some Hispanic voters), while increasing border security: perhaps with new technology like surveillance with drones or something... rather than an impractical & stupid wall, which would totally disrupt the migration of terrestrial animals and be ineffective and way too expensive (suggest Trump proposed it to enrich himself). Propose an "electronic" wall: make it sound like smart efficient government rather than impractical and environmentally stupid ideas proposed by a building developer (Trump) designed to enrich his cronies and himself, regardless of how ineffective it is. Also suggest that border security is good for anti-terrorism, and that she takes that seriously.
2. As a bone to the left, propose a path to citizenship for those families who are here already. Start with those who served in the military. Bring up some examples of this: I think most people think it's totally fair to put those immigrants who've served in our military at the top of the list. Next up would be those who have jobs and pay taxes and have stayed out of trouble with the law. Next are children brought here by their parents who don't know another country. Etc.
I think there's a way to sell both a smarter and better border security plan AND to offer a path to citizenship. Since I've heard Chris bring this up before, I think this is what he has in mind. But most of all point out how stupid Trump's ideas are, how impractical and unworkable, and how much bigger and stupider it would make our government. Especially his deportation plan, and the "deportation force" he'd need to make it happen. Then point out his racist pandering: the KKK appeal, the "rapist and drug dealer comments."
In other words acknowledge that we have laws on the books and that she plans to enforce them in a smart and humane way (as we've already been doing) but she plans to improve on that, and on the other side of the coin, she wants to offer those "good immigrants" a path to legality. Make Trump the poster boy for the immigration hawks. An "immigration hawk" #NeverTrumper was bemoaning Trump sullying their movement on TheResurgent the other day. This guy was a hardliner on immigration, but wanted nothing to do with the White Nationalists, racists, and the alt-right which are drawn to Trump. He acknowledged the damage Trump has done to his stance. I hate the way TheResurgent is organized... it's not easy to find old articles there. If I find it I'll give you a link. The author had a list of things immigration hawks could do to try and separate themselves from Trumpism.
Now I don't think a modest move to the right (or the center) on immigration is going to win over any immigration hawks, but it could appease those who are more centrist on the issue. Especially after they've had an eye full of Mexican flag waving, bottle throwing anti-Trump protesters.
But like I say, wait till after June 7 to make such a speech.
Mike, I was considering attending the Bernie rally this morning, just to say I was there, but I slept in instead. So after having my usual Saturday breakfast downtown, I took a walk (as usual), but this time up to the Mission because they do a chalk painting festival there every memorial day weekend (I Madonnari they call it). Here's a couple of pictures.
ReplyDeleteOn the way back I overhead three women in front of me saying things like:
"Yeah, he didn't really say how he'd do some of those things"
and
"Why did he have to shout in the microphone the whole time? We could hear him just fine."
"He wanted to make sure the whole city heard him I guess"
Anyway, I guessed that they had attended the rally. The local news said that security checking would start at 7 AM, so that's one reason why I crossed it off my list. Anyway I asked, and sure enough, they had been to the rally. They said he started speaking at 11 AM, and it was a two hour line! Holy crap... I'm glad I skipped it! When I saw Obama in 2007 ... in the exact same place ... it wasn't nearly that bad ... I don't remember any security check, I just wandered up to the back of the crowd after getting out of my piano class... he had secret service people with him, but it wasn't that big a deal. Of course that was 2007 and not late May 2008, so maybe he seemed like a long shot at the time.
One of the women had a "Feel the Bern" shirt on. They ranged in age from I'd guess late 20s/early 30s to late 50s or early 60s.
Anyway, once I saw the shirt I realized at least one of them was likely a Bernie fanatic, but it sounded like they all found some things to find fault with in his speech. Maybe none are truly fanatics. One of them informed me that Clinton (I'm supposing they meant Bill) made a speech from the exact same location (which is a really nice place BTW: the city college has a nice grassy amphitheater overlooking the ocean).
I'm sorry to say that I see more Bernie posters around this town than Hillary ones. I have yet to see a Trump one though, so that's good.
It's funny these women sound more like the Hillary supporters I talk to on Twitter!
ReplyDeleteThat's reassuring.
I don't worry over posters. When we NYers voted a woman wrote about how she was worried that everyone in her Brooklyn district was for the Bern and then the vote showed Hillary got 70%!
Often the Berners tend to be overcounted in certain metrics like online polls.
Douse the Bern! Climb the Hill! LOL.
That was Obama's' point. Being a Hillary supporter takes work. LOL You have to climb the Hill not just feel something.
Here's a shot from the local online news. Here's the story:
Deletehttps://www.noozhawk.com/article/bernie_sanders_rallies_in_santa_barbara_county_saturday_20160528
He did another rally in our North county (city of Santa Maria) later in the day. They say in the article they don't know when a presidential candidate last visited Santa Maria... Lol. It's actually a bigger city than Santa Barbara, but that's true: I've never heard of a presidential candidate visiting it. Plus he was just down the coast yesterday (Ventura). Seems he's really hitting every stop possible. If he stops in my dad's town of Ridgecrest I'll be very impressed! Chance of that happening: 0.0001%. It's hard to imagine there'd be more than a couple hundred Bernie supporters there. Probably not more than 5000 Democrats altogether.
John Kennedy visited there when he was president though... drove right by our house on the Navy base (China Lake), but before I was born. I have a vague memory of seeing a photo of his motorcade driving by our house. My mom was very excited because he was supposed to attend the officer's club that evening, so she put on her elbow length white gloves and her fanciest gown... but he didn't show. Instead he sent Pierre Salinger. At bit of a let down.
Funny you mention Salinger. I'm reading right now 'Mutual Contempt: the Feud that Defined a Generation' about Bobby Kennedy and LBJ.
ReplyDeleteSalinger of course was a player in that whole feud. He was a 'Kennedy man' and is talked about in the book.
I'll ask my dad if he and my mom got to meet him. I'm pretty sure my dad would have voted for Nixon (all three times actually), but he would have gone with my mom to the officers' club to meet Kennedy ... Unless they heard he wasn't coming and decided Salinger wasn't worth it.
DeleteThey did get to meet Scott Shepherd (the astronaut) at that same club on another occasion. He signed a five dollar bill that they gave to my older brother (again, before I was born). He spent it on candy. Ha!
I called my dad today to check his actual memory against the memories I constructed to fill in the blanks for when I didn't yet exist. I got some right and some wrong:
DeleteJFK did visit China Lake, did drive right by our house (in an open top car), my dad did get a picture of him, standing across the street so our house (the one they lived in when I was born) was probably in the background. It's also true that JFK skipped out on the officers' club ... but it was lunch, not dinner, and it was semi-casual, not "white gloves." And yes, they did see Salinger there, and he gave a brief talk, but they didn't talk to him personally. JFK was there to see a show of firepower the Navy put on with bombs, rockets, missiles etc, and the civilians (like my dad) on the base were invited to watch the airshow too and a few were invited to the officer's club after (it was basically an air show with live ordinance). JFK was tired after the show and had a private lunch with the base commander afterwards... about a block from our house. About May of 1963 he thinks. He says the Navy spent about a week practicing their air show before his arrival.
Also it was Scott Carpenter, not Scott Sheppard (I don't think there was an astronaut called Sheppard), that he and my mom met, and it was a $1 bill he signed not $5, but it's true my brother spent it. And it was not at the officer's club, but another venue (community center). They also met Jacque Cousteau there, as well as a few other astronauts and "captains of industry" over the years. Based on this it was probably 1965 they met Carpenter because my dad said Carpenter had just come back from spending a month under the sea. Which means my brother is an idiot since he was at least eight years old when he spent that dollar, and he should have known better! =) (I think I'll call him and make fun of him today).
For a little po-dunk community in the middle of the Mojave desert, it was a relatively happening place back then I guess.
It's funny, because they film a lot of car commercials out there now, so I see that area on TV all the time now... also, they filmed quite a few movies in the area, including Octopussy... in fact, there may be one pixel in Octopussy which is me since I was working at the airport at the time, looking up at the sky while they were doing some aerial stunts. Here I am!... Lol... starting right there, I'm down there at the airport in the background in the 1st frame (t=38s). I used to fly sailplanes when I was in jr high and high school ... I worked there in exchange for lessons and use of the equipment, so they're "in my old air space" in this scene ... those mountains are the ones that keep showing up in car commercials now days. I spent 4 years working out there altogether, so I spent a lot of time looking at and flying over those mountains, and know them like the back of my hand!
The bad guy with the turban on (or his double) had a parachute on, and he'd parachute down to our airport. They did several takes.
OK, well that was WAY more info than you could possibly care about. Lol...
Ok, one last bit: somebody did a short film (a few minutes) of how they did the stunts. There's some close ups of the airport I worked at (Inyokern). This is pretty cool actually:
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Y4h7_bLSs
it fills me with terror thinking about doing that... even though I did sky dive twice in my life... and back when I used to fly sailplanes I did have a parachute (one of the instructors gave it to me as a gift)... but thankfully I never had to use it. Something about seeing people hanging on the plane like that makes my blood run cold in my fingers and toes.