I was browsing Tom Nichols, a principled NeverTrumper and saw he had this exchange with Kristi Evans:
"Do you not have the insight to understand sales/persuasion? Do you think Trump believes this..? It's a TECHNIQUE."
https://twitter.com/GotKidsNoPeace/status/737333333198262272
Nichols has this great response to her:
"I understand sales and persuasion and I think you're exactly the kind of person who bought Trump Steaks."
https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/737336985237491713
Brilliant technique. Saying you are going to do terrible things you have no intention of doing for the votes.
But it got me to thinking. Scott Adams is really becoming a Trump enabler. A lot of people are saying we should elect this guy because he's such a Master Persuader, though he seems to have used his own brilliant skills counterproductively with the judge in his Trump U case.
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2016/05/trump-master-persuader-and-trump-u.html
I think you have to assume Trump means just what he says-if he doesn't mean it he has no one to blame but himself.
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2016/05/assume-donald-trump-means-just-what-he.html
So if we do get Hitler 2.0. Adams will be sort of like Trump's Carl Schmitt.
"Schmitt joined the Nazi Party on 1 May 1933.[12] Within days, Schmitt was party to the burning of books by Jewish authors, rejoicing in the burning of "un-German" and "anti-German" material, and calling for a much more extensive purge, to include works by authors influenced by Jewish ideas.[13] In July he was appointed State Councillor for Prussia (Preußischer Staatsrat) by Hermann Göring and in November he became the president of the Vereinigung nationalsozialistischer Juristen ("Union of National-Socialist Jurists"). He also replaced Hermann Heller as professor at the University of Berlin,[14] a position he would hold until the end of World War II. He presented his theories as an ideological foundation of the Nazi dictatorship, and a justification of the Führer state with regard to legal philosophy, particularly through the concept of auctoritas."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Schmitt
I wonder what cabinet position Adams gets.
"Do you not have the insight to understand sales/persuasion? Do you think Trump believes this..? It's a TECHNIQUE."
https://twitter.com/GotKidsNoPeace/status/737333333198262272
Nichols has this great response to her:
"I understand sales and persuasion and I think you're exactly the kind of person who bought Trump Steaks."
https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/737336985237491713
Brilliant technique. Saying you are going to do terrible things you have no intention of doing for the votes.
But it got me to thinking. Scott Adams is really becoming a Trump enabler. A lot of people are saying we should elect this guy because he's such a Master Persuader, though he seems to have used his own brilliant skills counterproductively with the judge in his Trump U case.
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2016/05/trump-master-persuader-and-trump-u.html
I think you have to assume Trump means just what he says-if he doesn't mean it he has no one to blame but himself.
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2016/05/assume-donald-trump-means-just-what-he.html
So if we do get Hitler 2.0. Adams will be sort of like Trump's Carl Schmitt.
"Schmitt joined the Nazi Party on 1 May 1933.[12] Within days, Schmitt was party to the burning of books by Jewish authors, rejoicing in the burning of "un-German" and "anti-German" material, and calling for a much more extensive purge, to include works by authors influenced by Jewish ideas.[13] In July he was appointed State Councillor for Prussia (Preußischer Staatsrat) by Hermann Göring and in November he became the president of the Vereinigung nationalsozialistischer Juristen ("Union of National-Socialist Jurists"). He also replaced Hermann Heller as professor at the University of Berlin,[14] a position he would hold until the end of World War II. He presented his theories as an ideological foundation of the Nazi dictatorship, and a justification of the Führer state with regard to legal philosophy, particularly through the concept of auctoritas."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Schmitt
I wonder what cabinet position Adams gets.
I watched that video and wondered: how can Maher say "strong" brings to mind Trump when he launched the "whiny little bitch" meme? Then I remembered - he was wearing his bronie hat that night. Not all Adams said was nonsense - I got that from "Art of the Deal" excerpts. I am working on #DeadbeatDonald - taking off on Twitter. But more important - if emotions are more important than logic, here's some https://www.facebook.com/motherjones/videos/10153777810687144/ 13 million people saw this already - more than people who voted for Trump
ReplyDeleteYes, it was very powerful.
ReplyDeleteI've read Adams the whole primary and I agreed with him that Trump had a real shot at the GOP nomination.
Where I disagree with him is that Trump wins the general.
But I also notice that people are starting to cite Adams as a reason to vote for him. You know Trump doesn't really believe this, he's just a Master Persuader.
This is actually turning into pro Trump propaganda at this point.
Thanks for commenting though. I know you read me but it's always nice to get a comment if you feel like it.
"But I also notice that people are starting to cite Adams as a reason to vote for him."
ReplyDelete"This is actually turning into pro Trump propaganda at this point."
Someone pointing out Trumps MO isn't a propagandist and honestly other than the feeling of being able to say "I told you so" I don't think Adams wants Trump as president. He would be against many of the policies a candidate Trump seems to support but again, candidate Trump has supported many different things.
Trumps effectiveness is more a comment on us than him. People have to want to be hypnotized. If you think hypnosis is bullshit you won't be hypnotized.
But even if you aren't hypnotized everyone can be influenced in ways they are unaware of by someone who uses different techniques, which are well described in many books and courses.
Trump doesn't need to make everyone like/trust him, he just needs to make a majority like/trust him more than Hillary. If he's a 4 on a likability/trust scale and Hillary is 3.95 he can get the nod.
Scott is just telling us why he's effective and how he's doing it.
I don't know. Don't get me wrong, I've read Adams with interest.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I do also think that there's such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy. For instance, IMO, if everyone keeps saying 'Nobody likes Hillary. I wish it were different but it's the truth' it makes it more likely to come to pass that people decide they don't like her.
If someone really does not want Trump to win then they would attack him, not attack Hillary or talk about how he's probably going to win or has a great chance of winning.
Again, I think it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy once it becomes an echo chamber.
I agree that Adams reasons for wanting Trump to win probably have more to do with saying 'I told you so' than that he necessarily agrees with his policy pronouncement.
For the groups effected by Trump's policies=the Muslim Americans, the undocumented immigrants who want to use Obama's Dream Act right now but are scared that this would move them out of the shadows in case there's a Trump Presidency it's no less terrifying the reason that Adams would like to see a Trump Presidency.
"However, I do also think that there's such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy. For instance, IMO, if everyone keeps saying 'Nobody likes Hillary. I wish it were different but it's the truth' it makes it more likely to come to pass that people decide they don't like her. "
DeleteYou are simply describing persuasion techniques. There is no doubt that the politics of power involves using persuasion techniques. The political right in this country (the left at times as well) has used persuasion techniques ever since they started trying to overturn all the New Deal and then Great Society (see Kevin Kruses books about the Eisenhower era). Propaganda is part of persuasion. Churches are part of persuasion and they are used by the right to help disseminate their ideas.
Persuasion can certainly cross the line into immoral and unethical behavior (Jim Jones and the Waco whackos for example) but knowing how to push peoples buttons is a good thing to know if you are trying to be in a position of authority.
You aren't suggesting that Scott Adams should stop saying what he believes to be true are you?
If it contributes to a narrative that makes a Hitler 2.0 Presidency more likely, maybe he should.
DeleteI mean that's his choice-though this may change once Trump is in charge as should be clear from his press conference yesterday-but if someone has a conscience maybe they focus on other things they believe are true.
There is such a thing as framing. I may believe 10 different things. However I emphasize 5 of those things more than others.
All I know is that maybe the press really believed it was true in 2000 that Gore was this unlikable smarty pants but it was also true that W's budget and tax plans were full of lies and that he had wasn't ready for the job.
The media decided to focus more on Gore the unlikable smarty pants than W and his dishonest budget and his lack of the background to be POTUS.
For me Greg, it's very simple. My only question is whether you-not you personally but anyone-wants to take Hitler 2.0 off the table or not.
ReplyDeleteThose who talk about things that don't serve that effort, hinder that effort. Certainly Adams imagines life will go on pretty much as it always has for himself.
There are many of those in America today for whom that won't be the case.
One other crucial point. For me, it's not about assuming that Trump doesn't mean what he says, and that he's not so bad.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion the only intelligent way to proceed is to assume he means everything he says. If you don't, you are already abdicating your democratic right and duty to hold him accountable.
How can he be held accountable if people just say 'Well, he doesn't really mean it?'
So I don't intend to give him a pass on anything. Any thinking voter shouldn't either.
https://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2016/05/assume-donald-trump-means-just-what-he.html
'Well, he doesn't really mean it?'
Delete*Could* mean, that he actually means something far worse, or that he actually *is* something far worse.
I too am annoyed by Adams' statements, but I don't think he's necessarily a Trump supporter. I haven't read many of his thoughts on this, but I did see his appearance on Maher's show. And despite what you think Mike, I think there was clearly only one Trump supporter on that show (the ex-libertarian guy). Unfortunately just as Adams was set up to launch into a (what I thought was going to be) an anti-Trump soliloquy, he was talked over, and then the subject changed.
Also, I don't know if I believe the hypnotism hypothesis.
DeleteMy point is not so much about Adams intent but that his theory has been used to build up Trump and as an apology for his awful proposals.
DeleteI think Adams wants a President Trump as this shows that he's brilliant in predicting a Trump landslide.
This doesn't mean Adams agrees with Trump but I still think his theory can be used for ill
I don 't believe the hypnotism hypothesis either. My theory has been that GOP is a dysfunctional, racist mess.
ReplyDeleteWhile Adams and I both predicted he'd do well in the primary it was for different reasons.
He doesn't call it a hypnosis hypothesis, I think that is a misnomer. Persuasion techniques are something you can use like hypnosis but they aren't one and the same. I think his point is that when you train as a hypnotist you learn these techniques. But Tony Robbins and others have methods which cant be classified as hypnosis but are certainly tools which can edge a person a particular way for a while. They are only trying to influence you for a short term often times, to get you to buy something or to get you to agree to something. You might come to your senses the next hour or day and have buyers remorse but the objective was already met.
ReplyDeleteApparently in Trumps books the things he talks about are classic moves in the literature about persuasion. Ill have to take Scott Adams word on this cuz I aint gonna read the books.
Greg, I've read some of his posts and Scott Adams has talked about hypnotism. He claims that he himself has studied hypnotism and that Trump seems to be a natural regarding the techniques.
ReplyDeleteI've read him with interest as you have. But I notice a lot of Trump supporters boasting about Trump's Master Persuador status.
For me, those who are either talking up Trump's 'skills' are talking about Hillary's alleged weaknesses are motivated differently than I am.
I only want to do what I can to make sure President Trump never happens.
I just remember the 2000 election too well.
"Greg, I've read some of his posts and Scott Adams has talked about hypnotism."
DeleteYes he has, I didn't deny that. If what I said sounded that way i didn't intend it to.
I thought when you said you didn't believe the hypnotism hypothesis you were implying that Scott was saying Trump was a hypnotist. He has said Trump uses many of the same tactics that he was taught when he learned hypnosis, there is some overlap, but Trump isn't a trained hypnotist AFAIK.
Just to clarify Greg, I'm in sort of a mindset right now where I'm very concerned about the media doing what they did in 2000.
DeleteThe way they talk about Hillary is very similar to how the talked about Al Gore.
As boring, elitist, no one likes, can't believe anything they say.
In the case of W, they were much more concerned about Gore not being the guy Americans want to have a beer with, rather than the real concerns about what W was saying about his tax plan and budget.
The media has been claiming that Hillary is dishonest when you have Trump with an 84% dishonesty rating refusing to be as transparent as even Nixon was.
So in my mind, if I someone is attacking Hillary or marveling over Trump's brilliant unconventional campaigning, this is someone-Adams or Lorenzo from Oz-or Susan Sarandon, who are sanguine about the prospects of a Trump Presidency.
As for Sumner, I like him right now as he's totally anti Trump.
To me, even if someone had legitimate criticism of Hillary, at this point, why not just sit on it? I mean voicing it now is just going to make Hitler 2.0 must that much more marginally possible.
Yet the media seems very sanguine about Trump, a candidate who today yet again made it very clear that press freedom is something he doesn't think should be allowed to get out of hand.
Who knows, if he's President, maybe even I could be under threat in criticizing him.
Maybe not, but I don't feel like I want to gamble.
No that wasn't what I was saying.
ReplyDeleteAdams has said he's a Master Persuader and sort of a natural hypnotist. Adams I believe actually has studied hypnotism.
So when he writes about how Trump is a MP, he's trying to hypnotize us into believing it. LOL