I think that Ambrose Pritchard-though admittedly a man of the Right-makes a very good case that it should be. He argues that 'Lexit' has already starting happening.
http://diaryofarepublicanhater.blogspot.com/2015/07/time-for-european-left-to-lexit.html
He linked to an article by Owen Jones who argues that the Left must put Britain's exit from the EU on its agenda. Of course, Britain already thankfully is not on the euro.
"At first, only a few dipped their toes in the water; then others, hesitantly, followed their lead, all the time looking at each other for reassurance. As austerity-ravaged Greece was placed under what Yanis Varoufakis terms a “postmodern occupation”, its sovereignty overturned and compelled to implement more of the policies that have achieved nothing but economic ruin, Britain’s left is turning against the European Union, and fast."
“Everything good about the EU is in retreat; everything bad is on the rampage,”writes George Monbiot, explaining his about-turn. “All my life I’ve been pro-Europe,” says Caitlin Moran, “but seeing how Germany is treating Greece, I am finding it increasingly distasteful.” Nick Cohen believes the EU is being portrayed “with some truth, as a cruel, fanatical and stupid institution”. “How can the left support what is being done?” asks Suzanne Moore. “The European ‘Union’. Not in my name.” There are senior Labour figures in Westminster and Holyrood privately moving to an “out” position too."
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/14/left-reject-eu-greece-eurosceptic
It's funny how things have changed. Now the Left considers the EU a progressive cause but in Britain it was once a Tory cause with the skeptical side being on the Left.
"The list goes on, and it is growing. The more leftwing opponents of the EU come out, the more momentum will gather pace and gain critical mass. For those of us on the left who have always been critical of the EU, it has felt like a lonely crusade. But left support for withdrawal – “Lexit”, if you like – is not new. If anything, this new wave of left Euroscepticism represents a reawakening. Much of the left campaigned against entering the European Economic Community when Margaret Thatcher and the like campaigned for membership."
"It would threaten the ability of leftwing governments to implement policies, people like my parents thought, and would forbid the sort of industrial activism needed to protect domestic industries. But then Thatcherism happened, and an increasingly battered and demoralised left began to believe that the only hope of progressive legislation was via Brussels. The misery of the left was, in the 1980s, matched by the triumphalism of the free marketeers, who had transformed Britain beyond many of their wildest ambitions, and began to balk at the restraints put on their dreams by the European project."
In Britain this is what seems to have happened. The EU project had been on the Tory agenda but with Thatcher, the British liberals started looking to the EU as bulwark against radical Toryism.
What Jones says here is still controversial on the Left in Britain then out of frustrating with Tory triumphs. EU skepticism therefore ironically has become a Right wing position in Britain-for the Left it still seems to be associated with hatred of immigrants and anti-cosmopolitanism.
"Lexit may be seen as a betrayal of solidarity with the left in the EU: Syriza and Podemos in Spain are trying to change the institution, after all, not leave it. Syriza’s experience illustrates just how forlorn that cause is. But in any case, the threat of Brexit would help them. Germany has little incentive to change tack: it benefits enormously from the current arrangements. If its behaviour is seen to be causing the break-up of the EU, it will strengthen the hand of those opposing the status quo. The case for Lexit grows ever stronger, and – at the very least – more of us need to start dipping our toes in the water."
Maybe but after seeing what happened to Syriza isn't the cat out of the bag that there is no changing the EU from within?
Jones has gotten a lot of push back for his article:
"I share their anger and frustration at the way that Greece has been treated: it has shown up in high relief the fundamental political and economic ideological divide between the left and the right, not just in Europe but throughout the world. It can only be challenged if the left in Europe works together to confront not just localised injustice but the system itself. Syriza and Podemos, in their different ways, are challenging the system and have tested the strength of those wishing to preserve the status quo. It is as foolish to think things will be better if we left the EU as it is to believe the answer to challenging austerity and injustice in Britain would be to leave the country. To build a fairer, more just and accountableEuropean Union requires the left to see it as a collective struggle."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/16/british-progressives-and-the-european-union-should-we-stay-or-should-we-go
I don't see why it's foolish if you believe that the euro is a disaster on a monetary basis. But notice that jibe about it's as foolish to think leaving the EU is the answer as leaving Britain to avoid austerity. This is not throw away line. The problem is that the Left is totally demoralized in Britain now.
It's not so much because most Brits are now Tories but rather that a large part that are anti-Tory now want to leave the country-Scotland. If Scotland were to leave Britain it's not clear what would be left of 'Britain.'
It would be getting very close to being just England which would be a much more conservative country. The reason for the push for Scottish independence is not an abstract desire for Scottish sovereignty, but simply that the country is a lot more liberal than England.
Scots feel as if they vote 90% for Labor yet they get it only 50% of the time-there is also the complaint that Labor moved to the Center starting with Blair.
I can understand why then the Left is demoralized in Britain-if I were there I'd probably be so as well-I'm guessing I'd be for Labor and the Labor party may well be in deep trouble-with the rise of SNP.
But be that as it may how is the EU going to save them? Do they think that Angela Merkel is going to save them from David Cameron? This seems to be the logic.
"Germany, frustrated by the failure of intergovernmental negotiation to deliver a federal Europe, has chosen to use its economic might to establish the federal Europe it has always craved. It is a difficult course, but the alternatives are not obvious. It is surprising that Owen Jones thinks leftwing progressives should give up on fighting neoliberal ideology in Europe but can win the battle by retreating to the home front, a la Ukip, in the most neoliberal of all the 28 member states, albeit one not shackled by the weaknesses of an ill-devised monetary union."
Well for Britain to not have the euro is a big accomplishment in and of itself. I don't get this talk of NL Britain when you look at how NL the EU is.
Or did they miss the fact that the EU is just the IMF without the compassion? These days the IMF looks pretty good by comparison.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/15/imf-greece-future-analysis-bailout
"A question for Owen Jones: why is it that the radical left in Greece (apart from the Stalinist KKE) is desperate to remain part of the EU despite suffering at the hands of the European bankers and rightwing politicians. The answer is that the European left are united in wanting to see a peoples’ Europe not a bankers’ Europe. The British left walking away from this fight will only strengthen those who represent the City of London and reactionary, bigoted, backward forces in British society and culture."
Because the Greeks are just as deluded as the rest of the European Left. Also the Greeks see the euro as somehow necessary to establish their 'real European' bonafides.
If the current EU dominated Europe is not a bankers Europe I don't see what would be. I mean the Greece economy is being destroyed to pay German and French banks who made irresponsible loans.
Compared to this, American policy in 2008 and 2009 in handling the financial crisis looks positively inspired. You may not think that Hank Paulson and Tim Geithner did the best job but you can see from the EU that it could have been much, much worse.
It's interesting-the conservatives who are leaning in the EU postion-Morgan Warstler, Scott Sumner-tend to see the EU as a Neoliberal bulwark. Morgan is absolutely jubilant about the way the EU is running things-which makes you skeptical that the EU somehow at its root has 'social democratic values' as much of the European Left still wants to believe.
It seems clear that Jones' parents who saw the EU as a straitjacket on social democratic governments rather than a bulwark against Neoliberalism were the prescient ones.
I'm not sure about EU membership itself but the monetary union aspect has been a disaster. Very intelligent economists on both the Left-Bill Mitchell- and the Right-Lars Christensen- tell us that.
Bill Mitchell: "Regular readers will know that I support an orderly breakup of the entire monetary union and if that is not possible then individual nations should exit on their own accord and reestablish some sane proportion in their macroeconomic policy settings."
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=31373
Lars points out that terrible failure of countries on the euro vs. those European countries who allowed their currencies to float. I really like something he said in the comments section of the post:
http://diaryofarepublicanhater.blogspot.com/2015/07/time-for-european-left-to-lexit.html
He linked to an article by Owen Jones who argues that the Left must put Britain's exit from the EU on its agenda. Of course, Britain already thankfully is not on the euro.
"At first, only a few dipped their toes in the water; then others, hesitantly, followed their lead, all the time looking at each other for reassurance. As austerity-ravaged Greece was placed under what Yanis Varoufakis terms a “postmodern occupation”, its sovereignty overturned and compelled to implement more of the policies that have achieved nothing but economic ruin, Britain’s left is turning against the European Union, and fast."
“Everything good about the EU is in retreat; everything bad is on the rampage,”writes George Monbiot, explaining his about-turn. “All my life I’ve been pro-Europe,” says Caitlin Moran, “but seeing how Germany is treating Greece, I am finding it increasingly distasteful.” Nick Cohen believes the EU is being portrayed “with some truth, as a cruel, fanatical and stupid institution”. “How can the left support what is being done?” asks Suzanne Moore. “The European ‘Union’. Not in my name.” There are senior Labour figures in Westminster and Holyrood privately moving to an “out” position too."
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/14/left-reject-eu-greece-eurosceptic
It's funny how things have changed. Now the Left considers the EU a progressive cause but in Britain it was once a Tory cause with the skeptical side being on the Left.
"The list goes on, and it is growing. The more leftwing opponents of the EU come out, the more momentum will gather pace and gain critical mass. For those of us on the left who have always been critical of the EU, it has felt like a lonely crusade. But left support for withdrawal – “Lexit”, if you like – is not new. If anything, this new wave of left Euroscepticism represents a reawakening. Much of the left campaigned against entering the European Economic Community when Margaret Thatcher and the like campaigned for membership."
"It would threaten the ability of leftwing governments to implement policies, people like my parents thought, and would forbid the sort of industrial activism needed to protect domestic industries. But then Thatcherism happened, and an increasingly battered and demoralised left began to believe that the only hope of progressive legislation was via Brussels. The misery of the left was, in the 1980s, matched by the triumphalism of the free marketeers, who had transformed Britain beyond many of their wildest ambitions, and began to balk at the restraints put on their dreams by the European project."
In Britain this is what seems to have happened. The EU project had been on the Tory agenda but with Thatcher, the British liberals started looking to the EU as bulwark against radical Toryism.
What Jones says here is still controversial on the Left in Britain then out of frustrating with Tory triumphs. EU skepticism therefore ironically has become a Right wing position in Britain-for the Left it still seems to be associated with hatred of immigrants and anti-cosmopolitanism.
"Lexit may be seen as a betrayal of solidarity with the left in the EU: Syriza and Podemos in Spain are trying to change the institution, after all, not leave it. Syriza’s experience illustrates just how forlorn that cause is. But in any case, the threat of Brexit would help them. Germany has little incentive to change tack: it benefits enormously from the current arrangements. If its behaviour is seen to be causing the break-up of the EU, it will strengthen the hand of those opposing the status quo. The case for Lexit grows ever stronger, and – at the very least – more of us need to start dipping our toes in the water."
Maybe but after seeing what happened to Syriza isn't the cat out of the bag that there is no changing the EU from within?
Jones has gotten a lot of push back for his article:
"I share their anger and frustration at the way that Greece has been treated: it has shown up in high relief the fundamental political and economic ideological divide between the left and the right, not just in Europe but throughout the world. It can only be challenged if the left in Europe works together to confront not just localised injustice but the system itself. Syriza and Podemos, in their different ways, are challenging the system and have tested the strength of those wishing to preserve the status quo. It is as foolish to think things will be better if we left the EU as it is to believe the answer to challenging austerity and injustice in Britain would be to leave the country. To build a fairer, more just and accountableEuropean Union requires the left to see it as a collective struggle."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/16/british-progressives-and-the-european-union-should-we-stay-or-should-we-go
I don't see why it's foolish if you believe that the euro is a disaster on a monetary basis. But notice that jibe about it's as foolish to think leaving the EU is the answer as leaving Britain to avoid austerity. This is not throw away line. The problem is that the Left is totally demoralized in Britain now.
It's not so much because most Brits are now Tories but rather that a large part that are anti-Tory now want to leave the country-Scotland. If Scotland were to leave Britain it's not clear what would be left of 'Britain.'
It would be getting very close to being just England which would be a much more conservative country. The reason for the push for Scottish independence is not an abstract desire for Scottish sovereignty, but simply that the country is a lot more liberal than England.
Scots feel as if they vote 90% for Labor yet they get it only 50% of the time-there is also the complaint that Labor moved to the Center starting with Blair.
I can understand why then the Left is demoralized in Britain-if I were there I'd probably be so as well-I'm guessing I'd be for Labor and the Labor party may well be in deep trouble-with the rise of SNP.
But be that as it may how is the EU going to save them? Do they think that Angela Merkel is going to save them from David Cameron? This seems to be the logic.
"Germany, frustrated by the failure of intergovernmental negotiation to deliver a federal Europe, has chosen to use its economic might to establish the federal Europe it has always craved. It is a difficult course, but the alternatives are not obvious. It is surprising that Owen Jones thinks leftwing progressives should give up on fighting neoliberal ideology in Europe but can win the battle by retreating to the home front, a la Ukip, in the most neoliberal of all the 28 member states, albeit one not shackled by the weaknesses of an ill-devised monetary union."
Well for Britain to not have the euro is a big accomplishment in and of itself. I don't get this talk of NL Britain when you look at how NL the EU is.
Or did they miss the fact that the EU is just the IMF without the compassion? These days the IMF looks pretty good by comparison.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/15/imf-greece-future-analysis-bailout
"A question for Owen Jones: why is it that the radical left in Greece (apart from the Stalinist KKE) is desperate to remain part of the EU despite suffering at the hands of the European bankers and rightwing politicians. The answer is that the European left are united in wanting to see a peoples’ Europe not a bankers’ Europe. The British left walking away from this fight will only strengthen those who represent the City of London and reactionary, bigoted, backward forces in British society and culture."
Because the Greeks are just as deluded as the rest of the European Left. Also the Greeks see the euro as somehow necessary to establish their 'real European' bonafides.
If the current EU dominated Europe is not a bankers Europe I don't see what would be. I mean the Greece economy is being destroyed to pay German and French banks who made irresponsible loans.
Compared to this, American policy in 2008 and 2009 in handling the financial crisis looks positively inspired. You may not think that Hank Paulson and Tim Geithner did the best job but you can see from the EU that it could have been much, much worse.
It's interesting-the conservatives who are leaning in the EU postion-Morgan Warstler, Scott Sumner-tend to see the EU as a Neoliberal bulwark. Morgan is absolutely jubilant about the way the EU is running things-which makes you skeptical that the EU somehow at its root has 'social democratic values' as much of the European Left still wants to believe.
It seems clear that Jones' parents who saw the EU as a straitjacket on social democratic governments rather than a bulwark against Neoliberalism were the prescient ones.
I'm not sure about EU membership itself but the monetary union aspect has been a disaster. Very intelligent economists on both the Left-Bill Mitchell- and the Right-Lars Christensen- tell us that.
Bill Mitchell: "Regular readers will know that I support an orderly breakup of the entire monetary union and if that is not possible then individual nations should exit on their own accord and reestablish some sane proportion in their macroeconomic policy settings."
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=31373
Lars points out that terrible failure of countries on the euro vs. those European countries who allowed their currencies to float. I really like something he said in the comments section of the post:
"Change cannot be forced on a country from abroad – unless you want full-scale colonization. Of course if the ask the man in the street in Athens today they will say that this is exactly what is happening and I wouldn’t necessarily disagree.”
http://marketmonetarist.com/2015/07/14/the-euro-a-monetary-strangulation-mechanism/#comments
I left this comment in response:
"What I find is that those who are on the Right who support the EU do so because they believe that the EU will force countries against their will to accept ‘neoliberal’ policies whereas Leftists who support the EU do so because they believe the EU will force countries to against their will to accept ‘socialist’ policies"
"I think that any thinking person whether on the Right or Left should be able to agree that it’s up to the people of each country what kind of monetary or fiscal policies-whether we who do not live there agree or not."
I can understand why leftists in a country like Britain want to believe that the EU is somehow a bulwark against David Cameron. However, the only thing that can save the British Left is if they can convince Scotland that they don't want to leave Britain.
Supporting the EU will in no way help towards that goal. The record seems pretty clear: the euro monetary union is a travesty. Hopefully the European Left begins to rethink this. I wouldn''t go as far as saying that their unthinking allegiance to the EU is just like when they made the same mistake about Stalinism-as Stalinism was seriously no joke.
But it is in some way reminiscent of it. The EU is not a force for social democracy-quite the contrary. It may not be quite like the Stalinist error but it is not at all edifying to see leftists continue to delude themselves that there is anything 'progressive' or 'social democratic'-or that in any way is a bulwark against 'neoliberalism.'
http://marketmonetarist.com/2015/07/14/the-euro-a-monetary-strangulation-mechanism/#comments
I left this comment in response:
"What I find is that those who are on the Right who support the EU do so because they believe that the EU will force countries against their will to accept ‘neoliberal’ policies whereas Leftists who support the EU do so because they believe the EU will force countries to against their will to accept ‘socialist’ policies"
"I think that any thinking person whether on the Right or Left should be able to agree that it’s up to the people of each country what kind of monetary or fiscal policies-whether we who do not live there agree or not."
I can understand why leftists in a country like Britain want to believe that the EU is somehow a bulwark against David Cameron. However, the only thing that can save the British Left is if they can convince Scotland that they don't want to leave Britain.
Supporting the EU will in no way help towards that goal. The record seems pretty clear: the euro monetary union is a travesty. Hopefully the European Left begins to rethink this. I wouldn''t go as far as saying that their unthinking allegiance to the EU is just like when they made the same mistake about Stalinism-as Stalinism was seriously no joke.
But it is in some way reminiscent of it. The EU is not a force for social democracy-quite the contrary. It may not be quite like the Stalinist error but it is not at all edifying to see leftists continue to delude themselves that there is anything 'progressive' or 'social democratic'-or that in any way is a bulwark against 'neoliberalism.'
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