Wednesday, December 9, 2015

On Banning Muslims Howie Carr Got There First

There is the latest Beltway narrative that the entire political establishment has gotten up in bipartisan unison and are denouncing Trump. So there you go. You can't' criticize any other Republican other than Trump-and Carson of course, and maybe Cruz.

All the guys who actually have support. In truth the picture is far more messy. While Paul Ryan and Reince Priebus are disagreeing with Trump here they aren't repudiating him.

But it's the talk show hosts that matter more in trying to suss out where the base really sits, not Paul Ryan, Morning Joe, or Jennifer Rubin. They are not leaving Trump, though Laura Ingraham seems a bit cautious about his latest outrage.

Ingraham, first up in the rotation, showed the most outward skepticism of Trump’s proposal on Tuesday.

“In this case he didn’t need to do this, he didn’t need to say this,” Ingraham said. “It hurts the cause of populism and nationalism for someone to approach it in that way.”

“The establishment has no credibility,” Ingraham said, and “Bush and Rubio are not going to go up as a result of Trump’s comment.” But Trump “lit a Christmas candle with a flamethrower, you don’t need to do that. Cruz’s approach is a better one, Rand Paul’s approach is probably a better one.” Cruz has proposed legislation banning refugees from countries that contain territory controlled by terrorist groups, like Iraq and Syria, and Paul has proposed a bill that would halt immigration from over 30 countries with “high risk” of terrorism."

Ingraham said instead of a pause in Muslim immigration, she supports “a pause on immigration period coming into this country.”

But hopefully you notice that this is an even more radical thing than what Trump said. He said pause Muslim immigration, she said pause it period.

And while Cruz and Rand aren't outright calling for a ban their plans would amount to something like it.

"Limbaugh, for his part, didn’t criticize Trump for his comments, though he didn’t specifically endorse the content of Trump’s proposal. Instead, he gave an extended soliloquy about Trump’s relationship with the media and with his party’s establishment."

“You Republicans, you can denounce Trump all day, all week, all month, and the Democrat Party and the media are still gonna say you laid the table for it,” Limbaugh said. “You can condemn Trump all you want, but it is not going to buy you any love or respect or admiration from the drive-by media and the Democrats. Now, folks, the conventional wisdom is that Trump is scum, that Trump is a reprobate, that Trump is dangerous, that Trump is obscene, Trump’s insane, Trump’s a lunatic, Trump’s dangerous, Trump’s got to go. Why join in with that phrase? Why join that crowd? We never fall in with conventional wisdom here."

By the way, if you've listened to Rush at all, you know this is his standard operating procedure-he usually doesn't take a specific position at least at first. He's very cautious. In that sense, Ingraham has gone out on a bigger limb than Rush has policy wise.

But then again, Rush has gone one better today. He's provided a justification for the policy. Or at least-and this is often just as good-a historical context. He argues that, after all, Jimmy Carter put a ban on Iranians during the Hostage Crisis.

And indeed, if you do a search, you find that all the Right wing outfits are running this story.

Anyway, I was wondering where Howie Carr is on all this. He boasts-like Rand Paul-that he got there first:

"Hey moonbats, guess what… 
prez can ban Muslims from U.S."

"For the record, this is what I tweeted out Sunday night after Obama’s pathetic address from the Oval Office:"

“time to close the border. No racial profiling. Nobody NOBODY can come in. What could be fairer?”

"So I’m not with Donald Trump on banning only Muslims, never was. I want to turn off the immigration spigot the Constitutional way, the doable way. (If you ask a terrorist flying in from Karachi if he’s a Muslim, what do you think he’s going to say?) It’s time to stop immigration, not just because of terrorism, but also to halt rampant lawbreaking and the multi-billion dollar abuse of the welfare system by undocumented Democrats.:"

Aha. So Carr is actually criticizing Trump for not going far enough. A ban on all immigration, period.

Here’s another document I’d like to put on the record. It was sent to me by someone in the office of a Republican senator (hint: not Kelly Ayotte or Susan Collins).

"It’s federal law, from the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 – a year in which the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress and the Presidency. I’m going to guess that among those voting to make the following words the law of the land was Cong. John F. Kennedy D-MA."

“Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.”

There you go. Trump is surely not losing any votes in Howie Carr nation. Howie also had a poll of his own fans and 50% are more likely to support Trump now, 39% about the same, with just 11% less.

Those a la Lawrence O'Donnell who think this is the end for Trump are smoking the kind of weed the kids kill for. One other thing you hear is that Trump has topped out and his latest comments mean he can't expand beyond 30%.

How do you know? Some recent polls have shown him with close to 40%. But in these early contests with 14 candidates, 30% is enough for a landslide


  1. Mike, I think you're right about O'Donnell overestimating the negative effects of Trump's statements with the GOP base. I think Trump could survive, and perhaps flourish, even if he went antisemitic.

    And now there's talk in Israel of banning him (in addition to the UK). Oh, I SOOOOOOO hope that happens! If it does, do you think Trump will walk it back? Absolutely NOT! He'll go after them! He'll double, triple, quadruple down.

    Antisemitism on the horizon with the GOP base? Is it too early to dream the impossible dream? Lol... Will Ann Coulter leap frog him even there? Will she go full Nazi?

    1. Ideally, by the time Trump is done with it, the GOP constituency will be reduced the ignorant, extreme and angrier half of older white Christian uneducated men living in the Old Confederacy.

  2. It's being reporting that Trump is meeting with Netanyahu in a couple of weeks.

    It may well be the case however that others in Israel are calling for his ban.

    On the other hand, he did have a pretty 'interesting' chat with some GOP Jewish groups where he said' I know I can''t win your vote because I can''t be bought but you guys should like me; I'm a great negotiator just like you'

    1. Yeah, I saw that! Jennifer Rubin was all over it. Although she failed to report that the audience at the RJC cheered on his return to birtherism (which violates her theory that only uneducated whites like Trump).

      Here's a reference for the discussion of banning Trump from Israel:

    2. Here's Jennifer at it again with her vision of what Trump voters are like:


      Right Turn|opinion

      Understanding why Trump’s latest outrage is different

      Resize Text

      Print Article

      Comments 34

      By Jennifer Rubin December 9 at 2:45 PM 

      Donald Trump at the Trump National Golf Club in Sterling, Va., on Dec. 2. (Andrew Harnik/Associated Press)

      If you think there is something to the theory that the GOP primary electorate is broken into four segments (moderates; somewhat conservatives, very conservative secularists; very conservative evangelicals) and that Donald Trump is trying to erase that arrangement by running on a sharp class divide, you can gain some perspective on recent events.

      "Trump has been “immune,” pundits say, to fallout from what many consider offensive outbursts and loony policy ideas. That is in large part because his core base — disproportionately low-income and uneducated — likes that sort of nativist appeal and ridicule of both elites and outsiders. But as he becomes more noxious, he makes himself unacceptable to all but that group. And then the question is — especially in an Iowa caucuses — whether low-income, uneducated voters who’ve not shown up on caucus nights in the past suddenly turn out to vote for him."

      And when she says this:

      "Trump is a walking cartoon of what less educated, less wealthy people think rich moguls act like."

      She's exactly conveying the idea put forward by standup comedian John Mulaney... which I think dates back to well before Trump's campaign even started. Maybe that's where she got that line from actually!

    3. Shoot, sorry for that ugly formatting. I didn't mean to paste that 1st paragraph from Rubin starting with "If you think" and all the trash above it.

  3. Maybe Trump is the great white savior who can liberate the "common man" from the shackles of taboos against antisemitism! Free at last! Lol.

  4. There are people who feel it's a shackle-a la Pat Buchanan. Trump is smart. He doesn't say anything that he doesn't know his supporters already agree with.

    1. Ah... but he probably knows their subconscious better than they do. They may not be consciously AWARE that they're chaffing under the lash of burdensome taboos against antisemitism... it's up to Trump to show them.

    2. ... like religion. People don't necessarily know they're born flawed and corrupted with original sin. It's up to religion to tell them so, and then offer itself as the cure.

  5. I think he does. But it's not like no one says anything racist or bigoted anymore. But Trump gives them a good conscience. He validates it.

  6. Like the cheering Muslims thing had been there for years-going back to a few days after 9/11. He validates it by taking it up.

    I don't know that he even believes half of what he says. Though he does believe some of it.

    If you look into his history, for years he's talked about us getting raped on trade deals and 'the whole world' but mostly nonwhite folks like the Asians, Mexicans, etc. just eating our lunch.

    The other thing is he has wanted to run for President for a long time. He claims that at one point he was considered instead of quayle for Bush the Father's ticket.

    So this is not a new ambition for him.

  7. Mike, what do you suppose will be Trump's top ten activities while in Israel? I'm going with smearing pig feces on the "dome of the rock" as #1. A classy move like that could propel him to new heights of popularity with the GOP electorate.

  8. He does score some political points by hanging with Bibi. This gives him a certain 'gravitas' by definition

    1. Sure, but even better for him if he can provoke a high casualty count terrorist attack, no?

    2. It's not so much that he wants this as he doesn't care if that's a result of what he needs to do to ride the polls

    3. Sure, he's not after the terror for its own sake, but if it boosts him in the polls then why not?

  9. Mike, check this out:

  10. O/T: Mike, the CO PP shooter has completely erased any doubt about his motivations. What's his religion? Christian? Maybe we need to close some churches and register those sick fucks. Definitely don't let any in the country!!! ;^D

    1. ... that is with his outbursts in court today.

    2. Yes. Remember who wanted to jump the gun and say he was an anti abortion terrorist before waiting to have all the facts first. LOL

    3. He's a self described "Warrior for the babies."

    4. "jump the gun"... you mean you? You nailed it!

      Sorry, that pic wasn't meant to be a criticism of you... it's just when I said it out loud, I thought of that. I first saw it here:

      BTW, I just saw HRC's ad on painting all Republicans as Trumpish on Muslims (on Hardball). I thought it was great!

    5. No I didn't take it as that. No I was just spiking the ball on that one. LOL.

      That weekend you remember I was going crazy with all the endless talk of how 'we just don't know the motive'

  11. What's funny Tom is that everybody was so coy 'Gee what was the motive, what ever could it be?'

    But meanwhile he wanted to shout if from the roof tops. The irony is he would have gotten off but was so proud he confessed in court. I mean no one wanted to jump to any conclusions no matter how painfully obvious