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Sunday, February 15, 2015

Scott Sumner Wants His Critics to Respond to His Actual Ideas

     It's funny as I'm waiting for him to respond to the voluminous criticism I've levied at him. The reality is he doesn't like criticism very much and responds to it mostly through hand waving and shadow boxing. 

     "One of the things that makes me believe that we are on the right track is that our Keynesian critics seem unable or unwilling to respond to actual market monetarist arguments, particularly regarding monetary offset of fiscal austerity. "

     http://www.themoneyillusion.com/?p=28674

     How many times have I and others like Simon Wren Lewis and Paul Waldmann shown that his 'winning bet' against Krugman in 2013 is just in his mind and that the only he makes it look like he does is by setting a very low bar for himself to declare 'victory' and cherry picking the data. 

     http://diaryofarepublicanhater.blogspot.com/2015/02/sumner-will-do-anything-to-protect.html

     Here he claims that Waldmann is way off base here:

      "Marcus Nunes directed me to another example, this time from Robert Waldmann at Angry Bear:

In any case, Japanese inflation expectations appear to have been successfully managed and to have caused higher output (including construction) as should be the result of the resulting reduced expected real interest rates. It is important to note that the extremely radical expansionary monetary policy was not enough to prevent a recessionstarting Spring 2014 following a 3% increase in the value added tax. Monetary policy at the ZLB isn’t helpless, but it can be overwhelmed by fiscal policy. The assertion that a sufficiently determined monetary authority can target nominal GDP has been pretty much disproven (again).

   This is wrong on so many levels one hardly knows where to begin

    To make his point in Japan he does something similar to what he does in Britain-reinvents certain economic concepts. Like he's now decided that a recession is not defined as 2 straight periods of negative GDP but based on how high or low unemployment is. 

   "Japan did experience two quarters of falling RGDP in 2014, but (despite press reports to the contrary) certainly did not experience a recession.  Or if it did, it would be the first recession year in human history associated with a significant fall in the unemployment rate.  If we could have a “recession” that brought down our unemployment rate to 3.4%, I’d be thrilled."

   Classic Sumner moving the goalposts. For years conservatives have wanted the Fed to ignore employment but now he defines a recession as simply one with high unemployment?

  In reality, Japan for various 'structural' reasons always has low unemployment. They've had low unemployment for 25 years even while all informed observers agree that they've been in 25 years of stagnation-it's possible to have low or slowing GDP and high employment numbers but until now no one suggested that this rules out a economy being in a recession or slowdown. 

     Ralph Musgrave kind of speaks for me here too:

  “Let me know when our critics respond to our actual ideas”? There’s an easy answer to that. Speaking as a Keynsian, “let me know what market monetarists respond the the actual responses that Keynsians have made to market monetarists’ so-called ideas”.

    I do see that Sumner's benefactor, Kenneth Duda, is answering a lot of comments over at Sumner these days. It's kind of impressive. This sounds kind of reasonable:

     "My objective is to build consensus, not win some academic fight. Thus, my biggest concern with market monetarism is the label. I don’t really want to be a “market monetarist” and enter some fray against Keynesians and Austrians and Neo-fisherites and Neoclassicals. Instead, I want to consider a policy regime consisting of NGDPLT (ideally via NGDP futures pegging), plus automatic fiscal stabilizers if NGDP falls too far below target for too long. (I prefer across-the-board tax credits as the automatic fiscal stabilization mechanism, but am open to other ideas.) Call this New Consensus Monetary and Fiscal Policy (NCMFP). It would be a *massive* improvement compared with current policy. Massive. No more 2009, 2010, 2011, or 2012. It should be something that that everyone from Krugman to Cochrane could get behind as, maybe not optimal, and they’d all have different gripes, but maybe they can all agree that this combination is better than current policy. This would be a consensus policy view that we can all push forward, and set aside our somewhat different models and a different intuition about which model fits the real world the best at any given time."

    If he's not trying to win an academic fight or enter some fray he apparently forgot to tell Sumner that. 

      

     



       

      

10 comments:



  1. Scott also is tired of people opining on macro econ who aren't qualified.... I know I know, more of the same

    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2015/02/have_an_opinion.html

    Scott Sumner wonders if too many people are injecting their opinions on macroeconomic matters. He seems to think that only people "trained" in thinking like economists should be listened to. In a display of ignorance, he compares people opining on macro econ with him opining on string theory.

    First off, string theory is not trying to do anything which will materially change anyones day to day life. If string theory were to be proven, nothing would change in anyones day to day life other than a nobel prize for physics would likely go to the physicist or mathematician providing the proof. String theory really revolves around the grand unification of Einsteins relativity, and quantum mechanics. Einstein was doing the macro, what happens to matter as it accelerates and approaches the speed of light, while quantum mechanics is doing the micro, how do the elemental forces and elemental particles interact. Learning the fundamental nature of matter is very interesting, and Im sure some new technologies could arise using the knowledge, but its mostly an academic exercise. None of the problems humans face today require understanding these things to solve. Our problems are all a result of how we have decided to organize our societies....... period. So opining on string theory is more or less trying to decide how many angels can fit on the head of a pin, relative to the issues that macroeconomics deals with.

    Secondly, macroeconomists cannot even agree on a few basic things like what is the difference between fiscal and monetary policy, what is the nature of money, how do we measure productivity, how do we measure NGDP in real time, what is a bank doing when it extends a loan, what is unemployment, while physicists do not ever quibble about what is a proton, what is a negative charge, what is the speed at which light travels.

    The fact that he likens what he is doing to what physicists are doing is unbelievable really.

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  2. Duda does sound like a reasonable guy. Whats he doing hanging with Sumner?

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  3. Well Duda's got deep pockets and wants to give Sumner the chance to test his ideas. More power to him.

    The fact that Duda is not an ideological conservative helps Sumner-he mentions that Duda has donated to Moveon.org which he loves to be able to say though of course he won't admit it.

    I honestly don't wish Sumner failure-though from what I understand there are some real problems with NGDP futures market. We;ll see who's right.

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  4. As for this shell game of his about not being qualified I always ask him what is it that I need to know that I've shown I don't. This never gets an answer-and yet he claims that his critics don't answer his points!

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  5. I wish Sumner failure. Actually beyond wishing, I just think Sumner needs to see for himself what other smart people have been telling him, that NGDP futures are not doable, otherwise they would have already been done. Mike Sankowski at MR would love to be able develop NGDP futures, he's done this type of thing before.... successfully.... but he has looked at it from all angles and has deemed it hopeless. One problem, the biggest one, is the ways in which it could be easily gamed. Another problem is the noise within NGDP data. We constantly revise GDP data months down the road. A good futures market needs to have prices updating accurately and more frequently.

    I hope Duda spends enough money and is open enough to facts that he finds these things out for himself. Maybe then we can get Scott to ride some other hobby horse.

    The problem with all this monetarist obsession with this NGDP business is that it just keeps delaying a real source of potential benefit, smart fiscal policy!

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  6. Well I mean I wish him well in the sense that sure, give him a real chance to prove himself right. If the facts are against him as you say then he will fail as he should do.

    That's the beauty of science.

    One thought on NGDP ftutures not woking: he'd probably say what about TIPs spreads: you know they guess inflation, don't they work?

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    1. I mean there are a 2 aspects of MM.

      1. Moving from inflation targeting to NGDP targeting.

      2. monetary ofset

      Obviously the idea I really have a problem with is 2. In theory 1 could be an improvement over what we have now-inflation targeting, which I've never liked anyway.

      Some of what he says here sounds like it could be right like that the trouble with inflation is that it can be demand or supply side, etc.

      Then of course there's the corrollary on 1: NGDP futures. Even if Sanowski is right-and I think he might be-that futures won't work doesn't mean that NGDP wouldn't be a better target than inflation.

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    2. I agree there are problems with targeting inflation, mainly because "inflation" is a man made problem. Its a finance term not a real economy term. Price increases are not inflation per se. And yes prices can increase for demand or supply reasons.
      Scott always likes to say "Don't reason from a price change" yet price changes are how everyone determines inflation. Price changes would also determine N-GDP. He's only wanting to target nominal GDP (you know I don't really like that term) which of course includes inflation.

      What everyone really wants to see is a growing economy, more transactions, more things being made and consumed which leads to more people having something to do aka a "job". They can be goods or services being exchanged but we want more exchanging........ for money. NGDP will rise when we have more exchanging going on but having a CB target that makes one wonder how they will hit their target. How can a CB increases transactions in the economy, unless they become a spender them selves, which is just what fiscal policy is advocating via the govt/Treasury. Scott just wants the unelected CB to buy everything if need be.

      All this is why I think Mosler is right that CB should stop fiddling with interest rates, only issue 3 month bills at fixed very low rates, enact a Job Guarantee to put a true floor under the price of labor and use varying tax policy to cool off or stimulate the economy.

      Monetarism has failed in every attempt to target monetary aggregates because they are out of their control for the most part and those that they do control don't do anything for the real economy.

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  7. Well the issue of a 'transmission mechanism' is another problem, it's true.

    'Scott just wants the unelected CB to buy everything if need be."

    Of course, in reality that would be fiscal policy, but for some reason he has a religious preference for the CB over the Treasury-I agree a big part of the reason is because the CB is unelected.

    Granting your point in an imperfect world where we often have to settle for a second or even third best policy, NGDP rather then inflation targeting could be an improvement.

    At least then you wouldn't have the CB feeling it had to pull back because a supply shock raised inflation. It'd be an improvement relative to what we have now.

    The question of fiscal policy, of course, is political, and ultimately, the only way to have better fiscal policy is less to argue with Scott Sumner than get rid of all these Republicans in office.

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  8. Well, of course, arguing with Sumner is also important as if he had his way, even a Democratic majority government would act like Clinton did with Greenspan back in 1993.

    So we need to elect more Democrats but also we must argue with wrong ideas about monetary offset as well.

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