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Wednesday, July 17, 2013

Richard Cohen: Patrick Sullivan Meet Your Soulmate

      Listen. I've been nice to Patrick Sullivan-I even praised his website that is well written. However, that he just doesn't get it on racial issues is shown by his tiresome attempts to play the reversal game-'aha so you're the real racist! You're the real profiler!'

       He's been claiming that Trayvon Martin is a homophobe based on his comments to his girlfriend that fateful night in the parking lot. It never occurs to him that behind all the false equivalence a 17 year old young man is dead. His parents and loved ones will never get to hug him again. He seems incapable of getting that while he plays word games it was Martin pursued Martin in that gated community based on race. Had he just listened to the dispatcher Trayvon would be alive. 

      Yet I've asked him repeatedly whether he can admit that this would be a better outcome. He can't bring himself to say yes-every time he simply deflects. If he attempts to answer this post my prediction that his answer will be another deflection-he'll change the subject but not answer it directly. Conservatives just don't seem to have any sense of proportion. As the commentator Greg puts it, these folks simply lack basic humanity at least on the question of blacks or other groups they don't consider as worthy people as white, Christian, men. As he seems so worried about anti gay slurs I wonder if Patrick supports gay marriage. Or does he support Doma? 

      I'll tell you what Patrick. If you are so appalled by homophobia-but not racism of course-criticize these GOPers. Is there anything wrong with these comments?

       http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/anti-gay-activists-praise-maine-governor-for-crude

      "They price all lives very cheap, they just don't know it. Get rid of every black and their ilk would find a new "someone different" to hate and marginalize. Its why their ideology isn't compatible with civilization as we know it. We've achieved the level of society we have in spite of the Patrick, certainly not because of them. With them the tribe gets smaller and smaller. The in group gets more and more inbred."

        http://diaryofarepublicanhater.blogspot.com/2013/07/patrick-sullivan-thomas-sowell-and-why.html

     The conservative Richard Cohen thinks he has written very clever column where he declares 'Yes, I'm a racist.' He perhaps says what even Patrick won't bring himself to admit to being. Why not just admit it? You think it's ok to treat young black males in discriminatory ways. Cohen admits it:

      "In a piece that contains the telling (even in context) line “I am a racist,” longtime Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen employed a mishmash of poorly explained statistics and bafflingly ignorant mathematical reasoning to argue that Trayvon Martin was “understandably suspected because he was black” — that is, Americans should assume any young black men they meet are criminals."

      http://thinkprogress.org/media/2013/07/16/2308761/washington-post-columnist-i-am-a-racist/

      As TP points out even if it were true that black males commit a higher proportion of violent crimes this still wouldn't legitimize treating blacks you just met as suspects-either ethically or logically. 

      "Writing that he could “understand why Zimmerman was suspicious and why he thought Martin was wearing a uniform we all recognize” (hoodies presumably being the universal uniform of all black male criminals), Cohen argued that Americans, and especially American politicians, are too afraid of the PC police to acknowledge the reality that black men are more likely to be criminals. “Where is the politician,” Cohen wails, “who will own up to the painful complexity of the problem and acknowledge the widespread fear of crime committed by young black males?”

      "Set aside for the moment that President Obama, who Cohen claims “perpetuated” the enforced silence surrounding black crime, incessantly talks to black audiences about violence in the African-American community. Is Cohen’s basic claim — that higher rates of black crime make it reasonable to suspect black men of being criminals — true?"
      "No. First, the basic assumption, that black men are more likely to commit crimes than the average member of another demographic, isn’t nearly as well-founded as Cohen wants it to be. For instance, blacks and whites use drugs at rates basically proportionate to the population: blacks are 14 percent of Americans and 14 percent of monthly drug users. Yet blacks are at leastfour times as likely as whites to be incarcerated for a drug crime. Could that have something to do with attitudes like Cohen’s?"
     "Broader numbers bear the point about race and drug use out. In a piece entitled “The Trayvon Martin Killing and the Myth of Black-on-Black Crime,” Jamelle Bouie cites a litany of recent statistical evidence to show that blacks aren’t “especially criminal,” including the fact that “among black youth, rates of robbery and serious property offenses are at their lowest rates in 40 years, as are rates of violent crime and victimization.” 
     "While its true that there are some numbers that go the other way, academic research suggests the blacks are still unfairly treated: in a review of the work on sentencing disparities for the American Bar Association, Marc Mauercites 2008 research suggesting “only 61 percent of the black incarceration rate is explained by disproportionate engagement in criminal behavior…Thus, nearly 40 percent of the racial disparity in incarceration today cannot be explained by differential offending patterns.” The American criminal justice system has already done what Cohen wants: assume black men are criminals and ask questions later."
      "But even if every one of Cohen’s prejudices about black men and crime was true, the columnist’s claim that it’s reasonable to assume black men are criminals when you meet them is founded on a laughably simple statistical error. Statisticians call it the “base rate error,” and it goes something like this: suppose taller mountains are disproportionately more likely to be volcanoes than shorter mountains. That doesn’t make it smart to assume that most tall mountains you see are volcanoes, because volcanoes are still a tiny percentage of all tall mountains. The most important question is the basic likelihood of a tall mountain being a volcano (base rate), not whether tall mountains make up a higher percentage of volcanoes as compared to other mountains."
      It's like saying that if all lepers are men then most men are lepers. It's basic logic.
      The cluelessness of conservatives is perfectly underscored by Ted Nugent's call for Zimmerman to sue Trayvon Martin's parents. 
       "From his July 17 column for conservative website Rare, where Nugent worried that "Zimmerman may also face a wrongful-death civil suit brought by Trayvon Martin's family, who refuse to admit their son was a troublemaker who brought about his own demise":
Parents can be held responsible for the actions of their minor-age children until the children reach the age of majority (meaning adulthood), which is exactly why Mr. Zimmerman should explore filing a lawsuit against Martin's parents. The age of majority in Florida is 18-years-old. Trayon Martin was 17-years-old when he attacked Mr. Zimmerman, which potentially means that Trayvon's parents may possibly be held responsible for the stress, emotional pain and anguish their son caused George Zimmerman.
I'm just your simple Motor City guitar player, and generally despise lawyers and all of their bureaucratic layers or legal maneuvering, but Mr. Zimmerman should hire a legal shark to determine if he has grounds to sue Trayvon Martin's parents for the actions of their son.
     "Since Zimmerman's acquittal on July 13, Nugent has made a number of inflammatory comments about Martin. In a July 15 column for Rare, he termed Martin a "dope smoking, racist gangsta wannabe." Nugent doubled down on those comments in a July 16 column for birther website WND, describing Martin as an "enraged black man-child" and a "Skittles hoodie boy."

      Right. Because Zimmerman was the victim. Not Trayvon, not his parents That Nugent can honestly want these people who have lost their child forever to be sued by the man who killed him just makes the point. Just like the juror who says she feels equally sorry for Trayvon and Zimmerman, and Patrick who can't bring himself to even call Martin's death a tragedy,Nugent can't even get that black lives have any value, much less that we should value their loss of life more than Zimmerman being inconvenienced. 

13 comments:

  1. I really get a sense that things are starting to get real tense everywhere.

    Conservatives are looking for a fight and they are simply playing their passive aggressive games with their rhetoric trying to get someone from the other side to react. They will then use the reaction as a reason to do something extreme. Its the number one play in their playbook, I know it well.

    Im so glad there were no riots surrounding the verdict as these would have been dealt with harshly and well out of proportion to what was warranted.

    I also really think that we should let them take this discussion they seem insistent on having about race anywhere they like. Just let them talk and show their true colors. It will be very helpful to the rest of us. We wont have to make any more unsubstantiated claims about these morons any more. Their own words will be much more devastating than anything we might actually say about them. This could be the entire countries " Please continue Mr Romney" moment.

    Lets give them their (erroneous) assumption about blacks and violent crime and take this even further. What about sex crimes against children?
    Who is the overwhelming leader in commission of that crime? White males
    What about mass shootings at schools and other public places? White males. What does this say about white maleness? See the real error of their ways isnt the misuse of statistics because I think there is SOME statistical validity to these numbers, its the misapplication of blackness as a "thing which causes something". Blackness doesnt cause any of this crap any more than whiteness causes many of our perverted brethren to prefer little boys or girls. Lets let them go there because there is no "there" where they want to go! Blackness, maleness and violent crime may have a correllation but so do whiteness maleness and sex with children. I think most people if we really have this discussion will realize that there are a few more metrics we might want to look at and that the two most irrelevant metrics are black and white. The most relevant metrics are maleness, violence, and sexual deviance.

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  2. I do agree with the link at TP though that to say that you should treat black males as suspects-basically they're guility until proven innocent-is not only contrary to our legal system but also makes a logical error.

    Again, as it said just because volcanoes are found at tall mountains does this mean you treat all tall mountains as volcanoes?

    Becasue all B are A doesn't mean that most A are B.

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  3. "I do agree with the link at TP though that to say that you should treat black males as suspects-basically they're guility until proven innocent-is not only contrary to our legal system but also makes a logical error. "


    Completely agree

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  4. Richard Cohen is a 'conservative'? You might want to expand your world a little, guy (as well as acquaint yourself with Aristotle). I'd say take Rachel Jeantel's advice given to the Huff Post interviewer;

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/17/rachel-jeantel-on-trayvon-martin_n_3611885.html?utm_hp_ref=trayvon-martin

    'Don't judge a book by its cover', except that Rachel herself (and her friend Trayvon) did just that with George Zimmerman. They thought he was a 'pervert' (her testimony, under oath, in court). That's what got Trayvon killed; their profiling of Zimmerman.

    People who give alibis for the counterproductive attitudes of the Rachels and Trayvons, encourage them in their excessive self-esteem, excuse their uncivilized behaviors, aren't doing them any favors (nor the rest of us). Which most blacks know to be true. Normal, law-abiding, put your pants on one leg at a time blacks, have a word for the Trayvons and Rachels; knucklehead.

    'evilsax' is more appropriate than you know--speaking of lacking self-awareness.

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  5. Being called evil by you-I just consider the source. Just like I consider the source of the person claiming I lack self-awareness and need to expand my world. I can only imagine how broad your world must be.

    You can't even bring yourself to say that the death of a 17 year old is a tragedy and that it would have been preferable that Zimmerman heeded the 'suggestion' of that dispatcher and not followed Martin and let the police handle it.

    You clearly can't even admit to this young man's humanity. You seem to think he's some kind of master criminal rather than just a high school boy. Oh I know, he uses pot. That's really abnormal for a 17 year old.

    For that he deserved to die. You say you agree not to judge a book by its cover and yet you have totally judged Martian and this young woman,Rachel Jeantal.

    Are you shocked that young people use profanity on a cell phone? You think most good white kids don't do that?

    As for your phony outrage over gay slurs-again, do you therefore oppose DOMA? Do you criticize Republican knuckle draggers like that Governor making slurs about taking it up the ass?

    You claim I lack awareness but I surely got you pegged. Just as I predicted you deflected totally and wouldn't answer my question. That's because you can't acknowledge Martin's humanity. After all, he's a 'descendant of rednecks.'

    Just admit it like your Right wing friend Richard Cohen: you're a racist.

    P.S. I guess as Right wing as you are, anyone to the Left of Ted Cruz is not a conservative. From where I sit he's a conservative. At least he admits his racism. Why not just quit your word games and admit the same? Then you can talk about self-awareness.

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  6. Having a discussion with such a high quality logician as you is very entertaining. Did you happen to catch Rachel Jeantel's latest; she admits that Trayvon started the fight, took the first swing.

    She also thinks Zimmerman should have just taken it like a man. Trayvon wouldn't have killed him. Perish the thought. No one ever died from having his head hit concrete did they?

    Did it ever occur to you that black people have self-defense available to them too? That if someone runs 60 yards to get to a black man peacefully standing on a sidewalk, knocks that black man to the ground, jumps on top of him and pounds his head into the ground, that the assaulted party is legally entitled to shoot to defend his life?

    Even if the assailant is only 17 years old, and has a mother and father who loved him. Because, he's committing a felony.

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  7. What occurs to me is that whatever Trayvon did to Zimmerman-and you don't know that he was hitting his head on the concrete-was self defense. He was doing nothing more than walking on a sidewalk. For defending himself the biogted Florida justice system allowed his murdere to skip home without the slightest consequence.

    Zimmerman had no reason to confront Martin either. Why not wait for the police? Was it because he was such wannabee cop himself? Just couldn't pass up the opportunity to play the tough guy?

    How he and all the bigots out there love it. We got 'one fewer' and no one pays the slightest consequence.

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  8. Zimmerman was waiting for the police. He was the one attacked, by a guy who had to run sixty yards to get to him. As this smart guy understands;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fEYpcmjghI

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  9. Hey Patrick

    Why dont you start an NRA style ad on your widely read site urging all the Trayvons of the world to just arm themselves so they can properly defend themselves? Just give them some helpful constructive advice! ;

    "Hey guys, you never want to see this tragedy repeated? Get a gun and carry it around with you. Then youll be on equal footing with the Mr Zimmermans. No need to run 60 yards.... a bullet gets there faster!!"

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  10. In fact, many blacks do arm themselves for self-protection. Far more blacks than 'white hispanics' are attacked by criminals, and most blacks are aware of this.

    Now homophobic young men, egged on by their moronic gal pals, could certainly do more damage to law-abiding citizens with guns than with fists. If that's what you're in favor of.

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  11. So your not in favor of homophobes owning guns? Do we have to check the IQ of everyones pals on their smartphone before allowing them to purchase a gun? Wow! And you call us statists?!

    Im actually in favor of waaaay fewer guns. Its the nutjobs writing Florida laws who seem to be urging everyone to own a gun and stand their grounds...take matters into your own hands. If thats the path we are going to take then I think guns should be ISSUED...... to EVERYONE when they turn 13. Then things will get interesting.

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  12. I think Patrick's concern over homophobia is very new and very convenient. However, that's quite a lot of gun control, Greg is right.

    So Patrick you're saying that no homophobes should own guns? You're more liberal on gun control than anyone I'm aware of.

    Patrick no matter how you try to blame the victim-Martin-it's not going to work. Zimmerman was pursuing Martin. He was already doing it on the phone with the dispatcher. Remember where he thought that Martin was approaching him but actually ran?

    Try as you might you can't make Martin the aggressor who attacked Zimmerman because he thought he was gay.

    It's a nice try but no one's buying it. Now even Mrs. Patrick Sullivan-aka Juror b37-is trying to make noises about being very sory about Martin's death. She's not just saying like you are-'well he was no good because he wore a hoodie and smoked pot so he deserved to die.'

    I still think the best reason for killing Martin was because he was 'walking around and looking about!'

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/a-swift-public-verdict-on-zimmerman-juror-b37/2013/07/18/d6a21144-efd0-11e2-9008-61e94a7ea20d_story.html

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  13. Patrick is you're opposition to homophobia is naything other than fakery then tell me this: do you criticize the Maine homophobic Republican

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/maine-republican-governor-paul-lepage-criticized-crude-remark-article-1.1379130Governor?

    If I know you, Patrick, you have no problem with that or anyone else who hates gays. You're just using it as a wedge issue in Martin's case as you hate him because he's black. So to attack him you're pretending to have a problem with hating someone because they're gay.

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