One of the most unpleasant spectacles in the aftermath of a very questionable and unpleasant verdict-no matter what a 17 year old boy was gunned down who nobody has shown to have been doing anything wrong and no one will pay any price for it-is conservatives gloating in the aftermath and claiming that this trial didn't even deserve to happen that it was a 'PC trial."
Do they mean to suggest that a trial into the killing of a 17 year old Black male is just about feel good PC posturing? Is it not possible that it's a terrible tragedy? To claim it's just about some celebrities and activists being "PC' spits on Trayvon Martin's name. Eric Wemple notes this Right wing media meme:
"Just last week, newly christened Fox News media-analyst Howard Kurtz broke down the evolution of the George Zimmerman-Trayvon Martin case with colleague Bret Baier. The topic was the same one that everyone had been chewing on, namely the great deal of coverage accorded to the trial.
Don't get me wrong. I think if anything the activists that got this case to happen and this tragedy to be taken seriously by the state of Florida are to be commended.
I think the country has really grown a lot over the last 20 years. While I'm very disappointed in this verdict, I do think it's a wonderful thing that there are not riots-a lot of people I've heard saying they think there will be riots if Zimmerman was let off.
That the country has grown is also shown by the fact that the nation demanded this trial happen at all:
"Yet to posit that the media and activists orchestrated a national issue gives too little credit to the nation. Simply put, people across the country were horrified that a 17-year-old kid walking through a neighborhood with candy and a soft drink could have ended up shot to death. They didn’t need the media to tell them to get out and demand Zimmerman’s arrest, or simply to express solidarity with the victim."
It's tough to say whether or not this trial wasn't fair within it's legal framework. Of course, the trouble is Florida's legal framework. It's a very curious system starting with only having 6 jurors in a murder trial. Somehow, in the killing of a young black male, the defense managed to achieve a jury with no blacks and no males.
Then there is the 'stand your ground' law that allows you to shoot at someone even if it's not in self defense.
The defense got its victory. However, it's very surprising to see the kind of 'spike the ball'attitude of this legal team post victory. I think it's going a bit far to complain that it was unfair that there even was a trial at all and that Zimmerman was a victim in even having to face trial. I'm very surprised by this lack of sensitivity. Even while they are understandably pleased with a verdict it's shocking that they aren't even showing some sense of understanding that nevertheless-even if they were right about Zimmerman's innocence-a terrible tragedy has occurred and a family has lost a 17 year old son and millions mourn his death.
To claim that this trial was just a PC sop is grossly insensitive and unfortunate.
Do they mean to suggest that a trial into the killing of a 17 year old Black male is just about feel good PC posturing? Is it not possible that it's a terrible tragedy? To claim it's just about some celebrities and activists being "PC' spits on Trayvon Martin's name. Eric Wemple notes this Right wing media meme:
"Just last week, newly christened Fox News media-analyst Howard Kurtz broke down the evolution of the George Zimmerman-Trayvon Martin case with colleague Bret Baier. The topic was the same one that everyone had been chewing on, namely the great deal of coverage accorded to the trial.
Here’s part of the discussion:
BAIER: Do you think this trial would have gotten as much coverage from the beginning had a lot of the activists not really got into the game in the beginning?KURTZ: Bret, I don’t think even it ever would have become a national story. It never would have been on the radar. It was the issue of race and the activists descending on Sanford, Florida that catapulted this. And really, you know, there seems to be this hunger in cable news land for the — what I call a soap opera spectacle. Before this, there was the Jody Arias trial. Before that, it was the Amanda Knox trial.
"Variations on this strain of thought have circulated in the media in advanced of the widely expected not-guilty verdict announced on Saturday night. On “Fox & Friends” this week, Geraldo Rivera, for instance, held the Rev. Al Sharpton of MSNBC responsible for serving as a “catalyst” for the prosecution of George Zimmerman. On the Fox News show “The Five,” co-host Greg Gutfeld declared, “the media right now is on trial for those first three to four months after this crime occurred, of all of the race-based content they ran with, without facts, but emotion, because it created ratings.”
"Get used to this line of reasoning, for it’s likely to spill into the public via self-satisfied, I-told-you-so professions in newspapers and TV monologues in the coming weeks. Hell, it may not subside till Labor Day."
"Don’t believe a word of it, however."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2013/07/13/the-george-zimmerman-not-guilty-verdict-dont-blame-the-media/Don't get me wrong. I think if anything the activists that got this case to happen and this tragedy to be taken seriously by the state of Florida are to be commended.
I think the country has really grown a lot over the last 20 years. While I'm very disappointed in this verdict, I do think it's a wonderful thing that there are not riots-a lot of people I've heard saying they think there will be riots if Zimmerman was let off.
That the country has grown is also shown by the fact that the nation demanded this trial happen at all:
"Yet to posit that the media and activists orchestrated a national issue gives too little credit to the nation. Simply put, people across the country were horrified that a 17-year-old kid walking through a neighborhood with candy and a soft drink could have ended up shot to death. They didn’t need the media to tell them to get out and demand Zimmerman’s arrest, or simply to express solidarity with the victim."
It's tough to say whether or not this trial wasn't fair within it's legal framework. Of course, the trouble is Florida's legal framework. It's a very curious system starting with only having 6 jurors in a murder trial. Somehow, in the killing of a young black male, the defense managed to achieve a jury with no blacks and no males.
Then there is the 'stand your ground' law that allows you to shoot at someone even if it's not in self defense.
The defense got its victory. However, it's very surprising to see the kind of 'spike the ball'attitude of this legal team post victory. I think it's going a bit far to complain that it was unfair that there even was a trial at all and that Zimmerman was a victim in even having to face trial. I'm very surprised by this lack of sensitivity. Even while they are understandably pleased with a verdict it's shocking that they aren't even showing some sense of understanding that nevertheless-even if they were right about Zimmerman's innocence-a terrible tragedy has occurred and a family has lost a 17 year old son and millions mourn his death.
To claim that this trial was just a PC sop is grossly insensitive and unfortunate.
Am I too big a guy to say I told you so (almost exactly a year ago);
ReplyDeletehttp://www.themoneyillusion.com/?p=15460
Everything I said back then has been vindicated in that Florida courtroom. Everything you said, shown to be not only wrong, but ridiculously wrong.
The Sanford police were right; it was self-defense. Angela Corey and Bernie de la Rionda are politicized idiots, and Alan Dershowitz (not a Republican to be hated, iirc) gets it exactly right;
-------quote--------
Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz says the prosecutors in the George Zimmerman murder trial should be charged with "prosecutorial misconduct" for suggesting the defendant planned the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin.
"That is something no prosecutor should be allowed to get away with … to make up a story from whole cloth," Dershowitz told "The Steve Malzberg Show" on Newsmax TV.
"These prosecutors should be disbarred. They have acted absolutely irresponsibly in an utterly un-American fashion."
-------endquote------
This is Chambers v Florida (1940), Leo Frank (1915), and the Scottsboro Boys. Southern fried justice...for yahoos like Mike Sax.
Patrick just because the 6 juror totally white jury ruled that Zimmerman did nothing wrong doesn't mean they were right. What exactly did I say that was wrong?
ReplyDeleteI pointed out that Zimmerman ignored the police who told him to not pursue Martin. I said that Martin did nothing wrong and that Zimmerman was stalking him in that gated community as if he were a suspect-the technical word is profiling.
At the end of the day we have a 17 year old young man dead and the man who killed him is allowed to walk away scot free. How does this vindicate you?
I didn't think that OJ was vindicated when he got away with killing his wife and Ron Goldman and I don't think that you or Zimmerman are somehow vindicated today. I think justice was miscarried which happens sometimes.
This is Dershowitz's option regarding the job the prosecution did. Are argument was about the actions of Zimmerman and whether he acted properly. I still say no. Dershowitz could even be right-that by the prosecution doing a poor job-if they did-Zimmerman was wrongfully able to flee scot free.
Dershowitz is a highly respected legal authority. Yet so is the lawyer for Michael Jackson who argued that if this case had been tried in many other states and locales Zimmerman would have been convincted.
If by Southern fried justice, you mean racist and wrong then I agree with you.
Enjoy it now. There will still be more opportunities to get justice for Trayvon-a civil case, also via the DOJ.
OJ getting off and the cops who beat up Rodney King were also cases of misacarried justice and ultimately justice was done.
I mean I'll admit I'm not familiar with the case you site back in 1915 but I'm guessing it was probably about how they lot a Klansman off for raping and murdering some black kid's mother.
ReplyDeleteThat was in the day's of Jim Crow where the legal system down South was more or less a racist kangaroo court anyway. Not many who harmed blacks were charged back then.
As I suggested above this is not over.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/justice-dept-zimmerman-case-under-review.php?ref=fpa
'I pointed out that Zimmerman ignored the police who told him to not pursue Martin.'
ReplyDeleteThe police operator who talked with Zimmerman that night testified that he did not give Zimmerman any orders at all.
'I said that Martin did nothing wrong...'
About which you were wrong, Martin committed a felony--assault, upon Zimmerman. Had the police arrived earlier than they did, before Zimmerman shot him, they would have arrested Martin.
'...and that Zimmerman was stalking him in that gated community...'
The evidence shows he was doing no such thing. He was merely doing what the dispatcher asked him to do; keep him informed as to what the suspect was doing. As well as looking for an address to give to the dispatcher (again, at his request).
'...as if he were a suspect-the technical word is profiling.'
That's not a technical word. It's a political word used by bigots like you.
'At the end of the day we have a 17 year old young man dead and the man who killed him is allowed to walk away scot free. How does this vindicate you?'
Because, as I told you on Sumner's blog, the shooting was self-defense. In which case, the shooter always walks away free if the police agree, which they did in this case.
'I didn't think that OJ was vindicated when he got away with killing his wife and Ron Goldman....'
Which might have some relevance if I had told you that OJ was innocent. Since I didn't, I'll merely note the 'fallacy of the red herring'.
'Dershowitz could even be right-that by the prosecution doing a poor job....'
Read Dershowitz again, he didn't say they did a 'poor job', he said they acted unethically. They violated their oaths of office.
'I mean I'll admit I'm not familiar with the case you site back in 1915 but I'm guessing ....'
ReplyDeleteDon't knock yourself out with researching, I've already done it for you;
http://hisstoryisbunk.blogspot.com/2013/07/death-in-deep-south.html
No need to thank me.
"The police operator who talked with Zimmerman that night testified that he did not give Zimmerman any orders at all."
ReplyDeleteDo you have any documentation of this claim?
There is no proof that he committed a felony. Ironically you could argue that if Martin did throw the first punch-which no one actually knows-that it was self defense by Martin and so should be protected by Florida's 'Stand Your Ground.'
"That's not a technical word. It's a political word used by bigots like you."
ReplyDeleteRight in the conservative PC world only opposition to bigotry is bigotry.
Ok. so you're trying to tell me that during the age of Jim Crow-blacks weren't even allowed to drink from white water fountains or white bathrooms and were lynched for whistling at white women the entire system was biased in their favor and against Jews.
ReplyDeleteNice try. This case bears little resemblance to the Zimmemran case. Zimmerman in this case wasn't mistreated he simply had to stand trial for shooting a young 17 year old male in the heart. The way the Sanford police acted remains very strange. The allowed Zimmerman to go home with the murder weapon that had shot the bullet that killed Martin along with his clothes with all that physical evidence on them.
This bears nothing in common with a lynching. It seems that at this point no one knows who killed Mary Phagan for sure though you seem to think it was a black man-there's a shock. You tend to always think that it was the black guy.
If it makes you feel any better there were many young black men who were the victims of the 'mob mentality' of the South in this era.
What happened to Frank bears no resemblance to what happened to Ziwmmerman. There is no comparison. Zimmerman is not a victim. He shot the kid dead. He was following him menacningly in the parking lot. The Sanford police department allowed him to leave with phystical devidence on his body and the mruder weapon with the fired bullet that killed Martin.
ReplyDeleteThat this should have resulted in a proper investigation is clear. Yet the Sanford police let him go immediately with all that physical evidence. That part I agree is Southern fried justice.
'Do you have any documentation of this claim?'
ReplyDeleteYou can easily see it for yourself on You Tube (and all the rest of the evidence, too). Since you are so research-challenged it's here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Fru9Oh67yo
At about 13:00 in, the prosecutor asks why Mr. Noffke did NOT give Zimmerman an order. A few seconds later, in reply, he says he's been trained not to give orders to callers, only suggestions.
Enjoy.
Also, if you're not a bigot, why do you hate Republicans? Isn't that 'profiling' people? When you claimed; 'He was following him menacningly in the parking lot.', you were also engaging in bigoted profiling of Zimmerman.
Listen to the entire testimony of Mr. Noffke, he not only says nothing about Zimmerman menacing anyone, he didn't think Zimmerman showed any anger toward the suspect, just understandable frustration with the criminal activities plaguing his neighborhood.
So, where do you get the idea that Zimmerman was menacing? Racial profiling?
Patrick save the trifling name calling. When you make a major claim-with a lot of implication for the matter under debate- it's normal to provide evidence. I'm not researched challenge and have no trouble when I'm doing my own research. If you look at my posts here at Diary I always provide quotes and links.
ReplyDeleteIt's the person making material assertions who needs to find the quotes and documentation not the one reading.
Treating someone like they're a suspect, following them in the dark and acting like they 'don't belong here' when you have no proof is going to be perceived as menacing to the person receiving such attention.
I use the title of this blog a big tongue in cheek. Originally I had meant to call it abortion on demand but forgot at the moment I had to come up with a title. I don't think hating a party-even if you approach it with zero irony-is quite like hating a race of people.
You basically admit that Zimmerman considered Martin a suspect just because he's black or as you might euphemistically put it 'a descendant of redneck culture.'
At the very least you admit that Nolfke 'suggested' that Zimmerman not follow Martin. As it turns out this was a very good 'suggestion' as if he had taken it Martin would still be alive.
I get the idea though that you don't find that outcome preferable. I guess you feel we have one less out there, huh?
P.S. If you find the idea of hating Republicans in particular very difficult-presumably you find them very lovable-a good example of what might make someone feel this way are the draconian anti abortion laws being imposed in so many GOP run states currently.
Not only do these laws-many of which I predict will be knocked down at the federal level over time-show total disregard for the rights of women in making their own choices but also are more generally very harmful to their health. In Texas GOPer Rick Perry's new draconian law that he had to call multiple special sessions to achieve will have the effect of closing down most womean's healthcare clinics in the state.
This view comes from a view of women as nothing but recptacles of their husbands seed. That this is obvious is shown by the fact that most GOPers in their heart of heart don't even think there should be a life of the mother exception or an exception for rape victims. When I think of a bunch of ignorant woman hating guys like this forcing women to get these medically unnecessary operations and forcing them to view ultra scans, even going as far as making them carry a 'rape baby' to term-well, lets just say my feelings for such people are considerably less than love.
P.S. Regarding Zimmerman he was obsessed with trying to be a cop and profiling young blacks. He even called up the police with observations about a 'young black male, 6 or 7, skinny build.'
I guess when you're discussing 'descendents of redneck culture' who just happen to have a much darker hue-of course that's not what you and Zimmerman are profiling-even little children have the devil genes inside them that make them so dangerous.
Just a thought, Patrick. I'll check out your video-why you didn't give it before I don't know. It's normal to document claims. However, it may be that the reason Noffke was trained not to give orders just suggestions is an understanding that giving orders might come across as too heavy handed and more likely not to be listened to. In many respets his job is a kind of pr or customer service to the public.
ReplyDeleteIf he doesn't give 'orders' by definition then this doesn't mean this suggestion was meant to be taken seriously.
Again, I wonder if you think it would have been a better or a worse outcome had Zimmerman heeded the 'suggestion.'
Or do you think Martin's life is to be taken lightly as he's from the redneck culture?