Ok, I didn't believe it would happen again, that the GOP could really be this clueless and really expect a different result from the same action but I was wrong . They apparently believe they can win this though it was a big loser 17 years ago.
Even those who claim to believe this, however, don't seem to expect very much.
"In interviews on Monday, many congressional Republicans argued that their best hope is that the shutdown will be short, the GOP can secure at least one concession from Obama and that voters will forget about the budget debacle by next November, instead applauding them for fighting a health care law they see as completely unworkable."
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/gop-braces-for-shutdown-fallout-97611.html#ixzz2gSwv4xKo
"I just don’t think it’s smart,” said Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.). “People don’t get elected to shut the government down, especially over something you clearly don’t have the votes for.”
Even those who claim to believe this, however, don't seem to expect very much.
"In interviews on Monday, many congressional Republicans argued that their best hope is that the shutdown will be short, the GOP can secure at least one concession from Obama and that voters will forget about the budget debacle by next November, instead applauding them for fighting a health care law they see as completely unworkable."
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/gop-braces-for-shutdown-fallout-97611.html#ixzz2gSwv4xKo
However, many Republicans understand they're not going to win this:
"But even that may be a stretch, a number of Republicans concede.
“I don’t think it ends well for Republicans,” said Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.), the conservative freshman and former House member. “I just think that we get the blame on things like this. I don’t think it will be any different this time.”
"I just don’t think it’s smart,” said Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.). “People don’t get elected to shut the government down, especially over something you clearly don’t have the votes for.”
Some Republicans were almost philosophical about the strange paradox that while most people in the polls show disapproval of Obamacare even more are against using a government shutdown to repeal it.
Missouri Sen. Roy Blunt, a member of Senate GOP leadership and a former House Republican leader, said: “If Republicans don’t get most of the blame for a shutdown, it will be the only time that the opposition party to the president didn’t get the blame for a shutdown.”
“It’s funny: People want to repeal Obamacare, but they don’t see the connection about what we’re doing here and the fact they don’t like Obamacare,” said Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), who served through the last shutdown and was a supporter of using the spending bill to defund Obamacare in this fight. “It’s an anomaly.”
An even bigger 'anomaly' is that while the government shutdown at midnight, Obamacare's exchanges open today. So this action failed to even dent Obamacare.
UPDATE: I don't get how this happened but this post, which I published around 7 this evening somehow reverted to a draft and I lost part of what I had written. I don't get how this happened. This morning I had left the post unfinhsed on my laptop before work. At 7 tonight I had finsihed it on the library computer. When I got home I found the post in its unfinished state. I left the page and before I got off it asked me if I wanted to save changes. I said no as I figured that it was already saved from what I did at the library tonight. Now I'm stuck with the unfished version from this morning.
Yet Greg's comment is still here-which he wrote after reading the finished piece. Computer's sure are annoying.
Overall, what I had said is that the real anomaly is how the minority position carries the day again and again. Even within the Republican party this wasn't the desire of the majority. Or the leadership. Yet the leadership, led by Boehner, decided that they couldn't ignore the tail which continues to wag the dog. Most people don't want a shutdown. Most Republicnas don't even want a shutdown. Yet we have a shutdown. Something's wrong with this picture.
What I had said regarding Greg which had led to his comment-hopefully it's still there, it shows up in my comments list so we'll see. Basically I had said that I had to disagree with my esteemed reader on this one point. He later argued with the esteemed designation but anyone who reads Diary is esteemed as far as I'm concerned. I was talking about this comment:
"I don't think the true believers are high enough in number to drive a full shutdown. They are a powerful and stubborn minority who will (and wish to) inflict much pain on us and the GOP. Too many guys on fence that will listen to the money when push comes to shove."
"In a sense I actually admire the true believers more than the guys who talk like the true believers in front of the camera and then vote with the money. The true believers, it seems, really wont be bought (or they already are.......... and well paid)"
"They have been very successful in pushing the Overton window so far right that a compromise at all with them is pretty radical relative to where our country has typically been."
UPDATE: I don't get how this happened but this post, which I published around 7 this evening somehow reverted to a draft and I lost part of what I had written. I don't get how this happened. This morning I had left the post unfinhsed on my laptop before work. At 7 tonight I had finsihed it on the library computer. When I got home I found the post in its unfinished state. I left the page and before I got off it asked me if I wanted to save changes. I said no as I figured that it was already saved from what I did at the library tonight. Now I'm stuck with the unfished version from this morning.
Yet Greg's comment is still here-which he wrote after reading the finished piece. Computer's sure are annoying.
Overall, what I had said is that the real anomaly is how the minority position carries the day again and again. Even within the Republican party this wasn't the desire of the majority. Or the leadership. Yet the leadership, led by Boehner, decided that they couldn't ignore the tail which continues to wag the dog. Most people don't want a shutdown. Most Republicnas don't even want a shutdown. Yet we have a shutdown. Something's wrong with this picture.
What I had said regarding Greg which had led to his comment-hopefully it's still there, it shows up in my comments list so we'll see. Basically I had said that I had to disagree with my esteemed reader on this one point. He later argued with the esteemed designation but anyone who reads Diary is esteemed as far as I'm concerned. I was talking about this comment:
"I don't think the true believers are high enough in number to drive a full shutdown. They are a powerful and stubborn minority who will (and wish to) inflict much pain on us and the GOP. Too many guys on fence that will listen to the money when push comes to shove."
"In a sense I actually admire the true believers more than the guys who talk like the true believers in front of the camera and then vote with the money. The true believers, it seems, really wont be bought (or they already are.......... and well paid)"
"They have been very successful in pushing the Overton window so far right that a compromise at all with them is pretty radical relative to where our country has typically been."
We were both wrong in our predictions-so maybe that business is not for either of us. Though who actually is good at predictions? Is such a thing possible? Or is a coin flip about as accurate? While I don't buy into EMH it's proponents are shrewd to deny the value of predictions.
The one point of disagreement is the True Believers. I really can't say I admire zealotry. I mean believing in something is one thing but this Kamikaze fanaticism is another. If more of the GOPers were amoral opportunists we'd be better off right now.
Ok. Now I remember how I finished. With a Nixon link! I had pointed out that for me the worst Presidents were Reagan and the second Bush and yet I wouldn't characterize either as chiefly amoral cynics or opportunists. To the contrary they each were True Believers. They did believe in their perverse ideology.
I don't think that believing in a perverse ideology is admirable. I'd prefer pragmatism as at least that relates to reality. However, if you deal with someone who believes in Unicorns there's no way to have a rational conversation.
Comparatively even Nixon had his redeeming characteristics. But then he was the last liberal. Or so it has been argued.
http://www.salon.com/2013/05/05/i_was_a_nixon_junkie_defending_the_20th_centurys_most_misunderstood_president_partner/
Comparatively even Nixon had his redeeming characteristics. But then he was the last liberal. Or so it has been argued.
http://www.salon.com/2013/05/05/i_was_a_nixon_junkie_defending_the_20th_centurys_most_misunderstood_president_partner/
Esteemed!? Not an adjective used to describe me very often. Thank you sir!
ReplyDeleteNot esteemed as a predictor however. Thats one reason I try not to make many.
Regarding the true believer comment, I was merely comparing them to the guys who talk like the true believers but bail when the money comes calling. Many of the guys who are going against the hardcore believers are still being influenced by equally wrongheaded ideas, they were just using the Tea Party. I prefer people who let you know where they really stand(even if a disagree), and sometimes saying "I dont know where I stand" is the only honest answer. Problem with todays GOP is that being unsure is a weakness.
See I think that part of their belief system is absolutism. That's why they'd be better off not believing so strongly.
ReplyDeleteAgreed that part of their belief system is absolutism but I simply mean to say that most of the guys Im talking about are not "pragmatists" they are just weasels. I prefer and have more respect for guys who stick to their guns than weasels. I certainly prefer that you stick to the right guns however.
ReplyDeleteEMH is simply saying it seems to me, "wherever it is is where its supposed to be"
Tak about a completely unhelpful hypothesis!
Still, sticking to your guns is the worst option when you have such wrong guns. Weasels would be preferrable as we wouldn't have a shutdown.
ReplyDeleteStill as I noted in a piece inspired by Bernstein, part of the trouble is that most Housre Republicas are weasels-and are afraid to ask for what they actually want which is not to have the shutdown.
http://diaryofarepublicanhater.blogspot.com/2013/10/jonathan-bernstein-ok-so-im-not-only-one.html