I just had another chat with Tom and I see that I'm in the minority in all likelihood. Must people are at least somewhat ambivalent about being a Trump Democrat. But for me there is no downside. I'm not joking. Tom:
I'm still a little ambivalent about the whole "Trump Democrat" project, and Matt captured my concern: we can laugh and joke about Trump unmasking the true face of the GOP base, but it still sickens to me to think of people getting beaten up by thugs because they feel like they have permission now to trash any remaining inhibitions. I'm ambivalent about cheer-leading the trashing of inhibitions (however phony they are) when it leads to bloodshed.
- See more at: http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2015/08/matt-tabbai-on-trump.html#comment-form
My difference is that I don't think the inhibitions in question are just phony-which makes them powerless to save us from GOP policies-but they are actually very harmful.
Inhibitions-what we mean really is that the GOP has been smart enough in modern times with its Southern strategy going back to Goldwater-just give Republicans plausible deniability.
1. They say they are for desegregation but against government fiat, or busing, or affirmative action.
2. They are for immigration reform but first we've got to secure that border.
Then they get in and implement terrible policies that harm African-Americans or Latino immigrants-legal as well as illegal.
Inhibitions is what have enabled them to disguises who they really are.
So I appreciate Trump's amazing impressionism-whether conscious or not-that brings it out in the open. Now the GOP can't hide behind vague homilies anymore and move on to the next question.
I don't know if Tom or anyone else can understand that I see the hypocrisy as actually harmful not as somehow leaving our better angels in control.
I don't want the pre-Trump status quo because that was awful. For me it's always about policies. Like I had a disagreement with some friends on Twitter. As far as I'm concerned Biden has been used to harm the Democratic party. I don't mean he's a bad guy-he's gone through an awful lot with the death of his son-but if he ran under a I'm honest and Hillary isn't because emails it'd be a bad thing. It helps the Republicans and why ever do that if you can help it?
So I always want to see the forest for the trees.
As for the media shock at a loss of decorum well often this decorum itself is part of the problem.
So Trump for me is the light at the end of the tunnel of GOP nativism and hatred of Latinos and immigrants. Now we have moved on to the next stage. The old status quo is gone and I don't miss it as it sucked to tell the truth.
But this is why I can't help but like Trump in some ways. He and I agree in our worst case scenario:
"But Trump reserves particular, personal ire for Jeb Bush, whose first name he commonly mocks by drawing out in a slight drawl. One Trump associate, who spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to speak candidly, said of Trump: “He’s very smart, he’s driven and he has two goals: One, to be elected president, and two, to have Jeb not be president.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-the-trump-bush-melodrama-decades-of-tension-and-discomfort/2015/08/27/419b0686-4be6-11e5-902f-39e9219e574b_story.html
I don't want Trump to win of course but I do agree that worse than that would be a Jeb victory-or Rubio; maybe Scott Walker would be slightly worse even than Jeb.
In a perfect world Trump achieves his goal of stopping Jeb but misses on his other goal. Hillary would light his hair on fire. She is a plus 40 with Latinos while he is minus 50.
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2015/08/why-is-john-kasich-so-popular-among.html
So I'm not too worried about him beating her. The only person who seems to totally get it is Bruce Bartlett. LOL
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2015/07/bruce-bartlett-makes-moderate-gop-case.html
I'm still a little ambivalent about the whole "Trump Democrat" project, and Matt captured my concern: we can laugh and joke about Trump unmasking the true face of the GOP base, but it still sickens to me to think of people getting beaten up by thugs because they feel like they have permission now to trash any remaining inhibitions. I'm ambivalent about cheer-leading the trashing of inhibitions (however phony they are) when it leads to bloodshed.
- See more at: http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2015/08/matt-tabbai-on-trump.html#comment-form
My difference is that I don't think the inhibitions in question are just phony-which makes them powerless to save us from GOP policies-but they are actually very harmful.
Inhibitions-what we mean really is that the GOP has been smart enough in modern times with its Southern strategy going back to Goldwater-just give Republicans plausible deniability.
1. They say they are for desegregation but against government fiat, or busing, or affirmative action.
2. They are for immigration reform but first we've got to secure that border.
Then they get in and implement terrible policies that harm African-Americans or Latino immigrants-legal as well as illegal.
Inhibitions is what have enabled them to disguises who they really are.
So I appreciate Trump's amazing impressionism-whether conscious or not-that brings it out in the open. Now the GOP can't hide behind vague homilies anymore and move on to the next question.
I don't know if Tom or anyone else can understand that I see the hypocrisy as actually harmful not as somehow leaving our better angels in control.
I don't want the pre-Trump status quo because that was awful. For me it's always about policies. Like I had a disagreement with some friends on Twitter. As far as I'm concerned Biden has been used to harm the Democratic party. I don't mean he's a bad guy-he's gone through an awful lot with the death of his son-but if he ran under a I'm honest and Hillary isn't because emails it'd be a bad thing. It helps the Republicans and why ever do that if you can help it?
So I always want to see the forest for the trees.
As for the media shock at a loss of decorum well often this decorum itself is part of the problem.
So Trump for me is the light at the end of the tunnel of GOP nativism and hatred of Latinos and immigrants. Now we have moved on to the next stage. The old status quo is gone and I don't miss it as it sucked to tell the truth.
But this is why I can't help but like Trump in some ways. He and I agree in our worst case scenario:
"But Trump reserves particular, personal ire for Jeb Bush, whose first name he commonly mocks by drawing out in a slight drawl. One Trump associate, who spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to speak candidly, said of Trump: “He’s very smart, he’s driven and he has two goals: One, to be elected president, and two, to have Jeb not be president.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-the-trump-bush-melodrama-decades-of-tension-and-discomfort/2015/08/27/419b0686-4be6-11e5-902f-39e9219e574b_story.html
I don't want Trump to win of course but I do agree that worse than that would be a Jeb victory-or Rubio; maybe Scott Walker would be slightly worse even than Jeb.
In a perfect world Trump achieves his goal of stopping Jeb but misses on his other goal. Hillary would light his hair on fire. She is a plus 40 with Latinos while he is minus 50.
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2015/08/why-is-john-kasich-so-popular-among.html
So I'm not too worried about him beating her. The only person who seems to totally get it is Bruce Bartlett. LOL
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2015/07/bruce-bartlett-makes-moderate-gop-case.html
Jeb wouldn't be at the top of my list of worst candidates. I think Trump would be worse. I lost all respect for Trump when he became a rabid birther. To this day I bet you if you asked him "What have your 'investigators' found about Obama's *real* birth certificate???" ... I bet you he'd answer "They're still finding some *amazing* things! This so-called 'president' is NOT off the hook yet! I'll be launching a full scale investigation after I take office. I'm NOT taking high treason off the table!" Lol.
ReplyDeleteCan you or can you not see him saying that?
Also I find his anti-immigrant position completely reprehensible. I live in Southern California... literally more than half the people I see on a daily basis are immigrants!! I can't tell you how much his rhetoric turns my stomach on that.
That said, I'm not sure he's be the absolute worst choice. I tend to put Ted Cruz at the top there... with Ben Carson right up there in the top three or four. Others that I find particularly repulsive include Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, Bobby Jindal and Rick Perry.
The fundy "God Squad" basically (Jindal's in there for his efforts to undermine science). To me they're as delusional (and as unappealing for the job of President) as flat Earthers or Raelians. They don't even belong at the "adult table" let alone the oval office.
I stole the "adult table" vs "kid's table" dichotomy from philosopher Peter Boghossian.
DeleteSome of my favorite Rick Perry animations:
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWPR5Ll3MpU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiQkOT1if24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMfa-pNbRcg
Enjoy!
Well that's exactly it. The Obama birther thing was ridiculous-and Obama put him in his place at that correspondents' dinner in 2012.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8TwRmX6zs4
But it's not actually a policy. Now on policies Trump would be much better than Jeb on abortion as he does at least believe in exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother-Jeb disagrees with the first two and Walker doesn't even agree with the case of the life of the mother.
If you look at Jeb's time in Florida he was horrible on a woman's right to choose.
He was worse than his brother.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/25/jeb-bush-abortion_n_6940568.html
On immigration this has been my whole point. As appalling as Trump's position is it's the mainstream position of the Republican party.
I've written about this extensively but I guess you didn't catch it. Kasich has caled for ending birhtright citizenship as has Chris Christie. Lindsay Graham and Rand Paul.
Jeb hasn't really really ruled it out and agreed with Trump that the 'anchor baby' thing is a real issue.
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2015/08/why-is-john-kasich-so-popular-among.html
Jeb's position is we should do immigration reform but only when the 'border is secure' which means never as the border is already secure and is a total red herring.
See you think that Trump is to the Right of Jeb and the rest of the Republican party. The facts show otherwise. No specific policy he's recommended hasn't been recommended before him by many others in the Republican party.
To me Trump isn't the big threat but the mainstream Republican party.
No, I don't think Trump is necessarily to the right of the rest. I agree with a lot of what you say. But on a deep, fundamental level I don't like the way Trump does things... I don't like his appeal to the basest of instincts. I'll take a boring stuffed suit over that any day, and in fact I think we'd likely be better off. Ideally, it doesn't matter much who the president is one way or the other. That's my ideal world! I know we're a long ways from that, but the more boring and conventional they are the better. I don't need any excitement coming from the guy who has the power to launch a thermonuclear war.
DeleteTrump's whole candidacy seems to be "You know I'm right because of how I make you feel inside! Angry and powerful!" That's a negative in my book. It was to weighed against other negatives and positives, but it's a negative.
If Trump were agreeing with me on EVERYTHING I would still HATE that aspect of his campaign and it would make me deeply suspicious of him as a candidate. I have a fun little story related to this that I'll tell you in another comment...
To me Jeb is the worst as he's in theory the most electable. For me for it's not about individual Republicans were some are better than others.
ReplyDeleteFor me the whole party is perverse. They are all as bad as each other. Except Trump who on some policies like abortion, the Iran deal, and taxes actually makes some sense.
This is because he's not really a Republican.
I agree that most of the party is perverse (well, what about Pataki? You'd know better than I). I don't agree that they are all as bad as each other though. I think almost all have a few characteristics that make them either more or less repulsive than the others.
DeleteI haven't looked at Trump's position on abortion, Iran and taxes in great detail, but I'll take your word for it, and I'll agree those are important. And I agree that he's hardly a Republican. He's more a cult of personality, which is in some ways worse.
Now I'll tell you my little story: I shook hands with Obama once... I attended his rally by accident (it started forming up right outside a city college class I was taking on the weekends... so I literally walked right into it after class let out... I had no idea what was going on at first). The primary was still going on (it was 2007). I'm not a patient person, so I almost gave up on it (I waited about 10 or 20 min) when I spotted some friends coming to see it. I stood in the back with them... and that's right where Obama entered and exited, so I was able to video myself shaking his hand.
How does that relate? Well during the rally they started doing this chant thing. I found it slightly embarrassing... but what was funny to me was my friends found it to be outright repulsive: don't get me wrong, they were all Democrats and I'm sure they voted for Obama in the general (and agreed with him on most issues)... but they sure didn't like the "mob" feel of a group all chanting the same thing in a repetitive manner... Hahaha... I wouldn't go THAT far, but I can sympathize!
It seems to me (so far anyway) that Trump's campaign is ALL that part: all "mob feelings"... to the point where I'm repulsed by it. So again, even if he were running as a Democrat and I agreed with him on every single issue, if that's he drums up support, I don't know if I'd vote for him.
The birther thing was an indication of that. It shows that he's a guy who creates his own reality and gives others a vicarious thrill to lose themselves and go along for the ride. It's what cult leaders do. They're brimming over with self confidence. They know how to incite a mob. It's inconceivable (to themselves and their 'flock') that they could ever be wrong. I find that to be repulsive.
One good thing about Jeb!... there's absolutely ZERO danger of a cult of personality forming around him! Lol!
DeleteIf you're curious, I dug up some photos from the 2007 rally:
DeleteMe at the rally.
Me at my friends house after the rally (they'd just walked down the hill... the city college is overlooking the harbor in the background)
A screen shot from my video of me shaking Obama's hand. Why not the video itself? My only known copy (on a Picasa site) won't play anymore! )c:
At a Jeb rally though, even he would have people chanting his name. This was not something unique to Obama! LOL
DeleteI have a new post about this
Tom Brown, my best reader, and I debate Trump http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2015/08/tom-brown-and-me-debate-trump.html
I also saw Jimmy Carter once at a wireless convention in Las Vegas... just out on the floor milling around with everyone else. I didn't try to talk to him, but he was certainly close enough (this was LONG after he'd left the WH of course). I also saw Bob Dole drive by East Beach where we were playing volleyball... we all went over to watch the motorcade drive by out of curiosity (back when he ran... a long time ago!). And I met and briefly spoke with Teresa Heinz Kerry when her husband was running... at a private reception/luncheon in Montecito. That was kind of cool. I told her I was probably the only Republican there, but I felt the GOP had abandoned me. She told me that only nine months prior *she'd* been a Republican as well... Lol.
DeleteMy mom felt cheated because before I was born Kennedy came to our small town (the one I was born in), which was a Navy test and research base out in the middle of the Mojave desert. He was supposed to attend a reception held in his honor that night at the officer's club on base, but he didn't show. Pierre Salinger went instead. She did have a picture of Kennedy's motorcade rolling by our house though, which was cool.
That's pretty much my whole list of vicarious or quasi political brushes with fame. Lol.
Well you've certainly got me beat
Delete