David Corn had this great line tonight on Chris Matthews tonight. Corn said the primary voters won't get sick of Trump because if they did that means they would have to listen to Jeb Bush.
After leading polls for the seventh straight week it has to be admitted that Trump is not just like Gingrich, Rick Perry, and Herman Cain in 2012. I really would be interested in what political scientists like John Sides are making of this because the so many of the normal rules have not applied.
Maybe they will kick in at some point but at this point no one knows how.
Tom Brown may notice that I've doubled down even more on my Trump Democrat agenda. Tom's underlying issue with Trump is how he is a demagogue who uses the cult of personality to gain supporters. The Trumpists-is that the right coinage?-are in love with how Trump makes them feel.
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2015/08/tom-brown-and-me-debate-trump.html
I was watching Trump's speech tonight-'This is not a press conference' he announced repeatedly-and I just laughed and laughed. Again no wonder Stephen Colbert is looking forward to parodying this guy. Trump is a parodist-whether he knows it or not. I think he is like 35% aware. I don't' buy that he's clueless.
He's 35% aware but 65% unaware.
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2015/08/why-stephen-colbert-loves-trump.html
Trump is a method actor, Colbert''s a method actor, it's a marriage made in Heaven.
Again, he's not wrong here:
"Asked to respond to Republican Gov. Charlie Baker’s remark that some of his comments about women have been “reprehensible,” Trump said, “He must’ve been talking about Jeb Bush,” and pivoted back to a favorite target: the former Florida governor’s statement earlier this month that he’s “not sure we need half a billion dollars for women’s health issues.” (Bush later said he had misspoken.)"
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/donald-trump-upscale-boston-fundraiser-213155#ixzz3kAtJbNKb
There were some protesters there tonight-not that many but what I don't get is they were abortion supporters. So am I but why not protest Jeb for what he said about healthcare-or better yet as their issue is abortion, protest Jeb over his record in Florida on abortion which was simply awful.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/25/jeb-bush-abortion_n_6940568.html
Tom says Jeb isn't the worse candidate in his opinion. I disagree at least on abortion-and a woman's right to choose is very important to me-though I guess Scott Walker is worse.
He actually would rather let a woman die than have an abortion.
How strong is Trump's cult of personality? Europeans are also obsessed with him.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/trump-europe-213141
Well, they are more anti-immigrant than we are as a group.
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2015/08/trump-really-could-win-in-britain.html
But I'm thinking Tom. If you want a guy with no personality or as little as possible then Bernie Sanders might be you're man.
The other day the media mentioned Rubio hitting that kid with the football and he gave the a lecture that this is election and he wants to talk about serious things.
“I want you to talk about and force discussion about climate change,” he said. “Do you think you do that enough? I would like you to force discussion of poverty in America. I have talked over and over and over again that 51 percent of African American kids are unemployed or underemployed. You think that’s an important issue? I do. Are you going to discuss it?”
He continued: "So what I am asking you is help me. … The American people want a discussion of the real issues. They don’t really care that Marco Rubio threw a football and hit some kid in the head. Not one of the great issues facing our society.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/08/24/bernie-sanders-plays-the-role-of-media-critic-as-well-as-candidate/
After leading polls for the seventh straight week it has to be admitted that Trump is not just like Gingrich, Rick Perry, and Herman Cain in 2012. I really would be interested in what political scientists like John Sides are making of this because the so many of the normal rules have not applied.
Maybe they will kick in at some point but at this point no one knows how.
Tom Brown may notice that I've doubled down even more on my Trump Democrat agenda. Tom's underlying issue with Trump is how he is a demagogue who uses the cult of personality to gain supporters. The Trumpists-is that the right coinage?-are in love with how Trump makes them feel.
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2015/08/tom-brown-and-me-debate-trump.html
I was watching Trump's speech tonight-'This is not a press conference' he announced repeatedly-and I just laughed and laughed. Again no wonder Stephen Colbert is looking forward to parodying this guy. Trump is a parodist-whether he knows it or not. I think he is like 35% aware. I don't' buy that he's clueless.
He's 35% aware but 65% unaware.
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2015/08/why-stephen-colbert-loves-trump.html
Trump is a method actor, Colbert''s a method actor, it's a marriage made in Heaven.
Again, he's not wrong here:
"Asked to respond to Republican Gov. Charlie Baker’s remark that some of his comments about women have been “reprehensible,” Trump said, “He must’ve been talking about Jeb Bush,” and pivoted back to a favorite target: the former Florida governor’s statement earlier this month that he’s “not sure we need half a billion dollars for women’s health issues.” (Bush later said he had misspoken.)"
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/donald-trump-upscale-boston-fundraiser-213155#ixzz3kAtJbNKb
There were some protesters there tonight-not that many but what I don't get is they were abortion supporters. So am I but why not protest Jeb for what he said about healthcare-or better yet as their issue is abortion, protest Jeb over his record in Florida on abortion which was simply awful.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/25/jeb-bush-abortion_n_6940568.html
Tom says Jeb isn't the worse candidate in his opinion. I disagree at least on abortion-and a woman's right to choose is very important to me-though I guess Scott Walker is worse.
He actually would rather let a woman die than have an abortion.
How strong is Trump's cult of personality? Europeans are also obsessed with him.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/trump-europe-213141
Well, they are more anti-immigrant than we are as a group.
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2015/08/trump-really-could-win-in-britain.html
But I'm thinking Tom. If you want a guy with no personality or as little as possible then Bernie Sanders might be you're man.
The other day the media mentioned Rubio hitting that kid with the football and he gave the a lecture that this is election and he wants to talk about serious things.
“I want you to talk about and force discussion about climate change,” he said. “Do you think you do that enough? I would like you to force discussion of poverty in America. I have talked over and over and over again that 51 percent of African American kids are unemployed or underemployed. You think that’s an important issue? I do. Are you going to discuss it?”
He continued: "So what I am asking you is help me. … The American people want a discussion of the real issues. They don’t really care that Marco Rubio threw a football and hit some kid in the head. Not one of the great issues facing our society.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/08/24/bernie-sanders-plays-the-role-of-media-critic-as-well-as-candidate/
I care about the all the things he mentioned but I still thought Rubio made a full of himself and that was funny.
To do both these things at once is easier than walking and chewing gum at the same time. But Bernie is the anti cult of personality.
That's true of firebaggers-nothing is a joke with them-there are just too many serious things going on in the world for that.
I spoke about my time co-hosting an Internet progressive radio show a few years ago with TurboKitty.
http://lastmenandovermen.blogspot.com/2015/08/turbokitty-bernie-woman-with-vendeatta.html
She was not amused when I mentioned American Idol She lectured me about how unimportant the people on that show are.
Kind of makes me think of that old saying: too heavenly for any earthly use.
"But Bernie is the anti cult of personality."
ReplyDeleteWell, I'd never really considered it. I'll look into it... thanks for the tip! Lol.
Mike, I've been listening to these "Rationally Speaking" podcasts, and I just started one from October of last year called "Assholes and Bitches." The interviewee has a book in which he develops an asshole taxonomy... so literally I'm wondering if there's something I can learn about Trump in there... when one of the interviewers declares "I need this to be concrete: give us some names" ... and he mentions Trump as an example... Hahaha. Here it is.
ReplyDeleteThis book was brought up by all during the podcast: Harry Frankfurt, a philosopher, wrote a book called "On Bullshit."
DeleteI think there's something in there relevant to this whole campaign.
That interview is pretty cool. So there's lying and then there's bullshit.
DeleteI just downloaded his book on Kindle
DeleteI notice that he used John Kerry as an example of bullshit. Interesting choice-so W wasn't a bullshiitter? A liar then?
DeleteMike, I didn't think that was the best example of bullshit either (when there were probably so many others to choose from in 2004). Perhaps it was fresh on his mind that day... who knows. He *was* reluctant to go there.
DeleteWorst case, he's got a rightwing political bias... still, the analysis of what constitutes bullshit as opposed to lying does strike a chord with me. I like how he describes bullshitting as somehow liberating to the bullshitter: they literally don't care what they say. They're not trying to hide anything. Perhaps they know that their audience will buy anything, so they feel completely free... perhaps that's what Limbaugh feels like some days?
It's even worse in a sense because what Kerry said wasn't so much bullshit-or if it was it goes back to a long time narrative that didn't originate with him.
DeleteIt's the idea that you have to show you're going to be 'tough on foreign policy' and what better way to do that than by being a war hero? Especially as the GOP calls the Dems weak on defense?
So while this is bullshit it's much bigger than one candidate it's a cultural meme.
So yeah, not a great example. But I also agree with you that even if the example isn't great his theory certainly is on to something very interesting with a lot of truth to it.
Again do you think Sumner is a classic bullshitter? I really want to hear this.
DeleteIt struck me that a good apolitical example today would be the Food Babe (I listened to the "SciBabe" dismantle her here), and when I went back to go look, I was delighted to see that the SciBabe actually put BS right up front in her description... Lol... although in her Gawker article, she used the phrase "full of shit" now that I think about it. I didn't realize at the time that SciBabe was using technical terminology! ha!
DeleteTrouble is I don't know who either of these babes are. LOL. Is there anyone on a more high profile level-politics. or economics, etc.
DeleteI actually think that Sumner cares about the truth. I think he might be deluded sometimes. I'm pretty sure I'm deluded sometimes too. Ha.
DeleteI think Jason's Smith's criticism of the MMs is the most intriguing I've heard: essentially it's that "expectations" is a "bad ad hoc" explanation. In other words, it's unfalsifiable and it leads to circular reasoning. I'm not 100% sold on that view, but it's something I'm mulling over all the time now. I think there are some pretty clear examples of it on MM blogs at times. But I wouldn't consider it to always be BS. It's more a self delusion most of the time.
I think that there is a lot of BS in macro though probably. I think that Paul Romer not only does a good job of identifying it, but also unwittingly engages in it himself a bit as well.
So I'm not sure how to tease out the BS from the self deception in those cases. But one thing that I like to do is to ask people "What objective evidence would convince you that you're wrong about that?"
If you don't get a good answer to that question, then you might be dealing with somebody who's at least a little (and perhaps a lot) self deluded. Perhaps they're a BSer though... Ha.
I think most conspiracy theory people are bullshitters. Take Alex Jones for example: he can turn anything into a conspiracy. Same for Glenn Beck. It's pure bullshit. They've got no clue what they're talking about, but that doesn't even slow them down.
DeletePaul Romer's narrative is interesting but I do think David Gllasner's argument has some merit-there can be good reasons not to do Feynman Certainty at least with pioneers like Galileo.
DeleteRomer's overall narrative is interesting but I don't follow him at all: Bob Lucas lost interest in truth because Solow laughed at him.
See Tom-I just had another Right wing friend stop by. Listen to what Anonymous had to say:
ReplyDelete"Mr. Trump" will be used at any given introduction of said person by the media after he is elected president. Whenever possible the word President will be omitted from the mouths of the extreme press both here and around the globe."
So what was my response: 'Well that will be interesting to see'-see I don't want to discourage him. LOL
So here's what I'm interested in Tom. Besides the obvious bullshitting of Trump who else would you say is a bullshitter in public life?
DeleteDo you think Sumner is? I think he's a classic bullshitter. He says lots of things that aren't untrue but there are other things he could say that he doesn't.
Good question... I wouldn't put Sumner at the top of the list, but sure I think that's probably correct sometimes. The best example I can think of I put in a comment above (the "Food Babe").
DeleteI've heard a related concept called "Modern Jackass" which I think essentially just translates as bullshitter. You can hear a definition of "modern jackass" in the prologue here.
The fact that you don't think Sumner is such a bullshitter makes me wonder if we have the same definition-LOL
DeleteSo you think he's mostly honest? Mostly right? I'm curious-how would you describe him?
I go into that in more detail above. I don't necessarily think he's right... I just don't get the sense that he doesn't care about the truth. I think he usually does care about the truth. That's my impression, for what it's worth.
DeletePoliticians and pundits are often classic cases of people who are only concerned with the truth up to the point that it's not going to cause them embarrassment. Beyond that, if they can "spin" away they do. Some are worse than others, of course, but that's a typical formula.
Then there's the know it all Modern Jackass we all run into on a daily basis. The person who, for whatever reason, just doesn't feel inclined to be honest and say "I don't know." I'm guilty of this myself sometimes. I find myself spouting off about things I don't really know anything about. As if not having an opinion or not having something to say on a subject is shameful or to be avoided for some reason. Is some of what I'm saying true? Maybe. Apparently (at least at the times I catch myself doing this) I don't care.
And really the next best example I can think of are all the people out there who are trying to sell us bullshit: typically alternative medicines or special diets, etc. Not ALL diets are bullshit, but a lot of them are (you know that has to be true because they contradict one another!). Those are classic cases of taking a few words, some intuition, perhaps a few actual facts, and spinning a yarn out of it which is bullshit. The world is literally full of these people (to some degree or another). I was visiting a nice old lady I know (who used to be my neighbor) in the care facility in which she lives now... somebody who was never even on my bullshit radar... but I heard her telling somebody else in the room "blueberries are good for you because they are the best anti-oxidants"... which surprised me. I doubt she could tell me what that means or why anti-oxidants are supposedly good for you... so in other words she was bullshitting! (and no, I didn't press her on the issue).
One more example occurred to me: my co-worker is friends with a guy who won an Ignoble Award... for pointing out bullshit in fMRI studies.
DeleteIn order to try to avoid bullshitting myself, I *think* I've played pub quiz with this guy and his wife a time or two, but I'm not positive. My coworker (who also plays) thinks that might be true as well, but in any case I can't claim to know him myself.
Actually, now that I see his picture, I'm pretty sure I did play pub quiz with him.
Well he certainly looks like an asshole! LOL
ReplyDelete