He wrote a post about the top income tax rate, asking which country has the highest rate for the rich.
"Taxes are fiendishly complex, so this post might have some errors. I’m trying to see where America ranks in terms of “top income tax rate.” Just to be clear, I am not including wage taxes, or corporate income taxes. Nor am I interested in the maximum MTR associated with benefit and deduction phaseouts. You’d have to be a rocket scientist to figure all of those out. I’d like to rank countries according to the MTR as one’s income goes out towards infinity. I believe the top 6 countries are:
http://www.themoneyillusion.com/?p=24759
He's always been terribly worried about that 3.8% medical income tax:
"Canada seems to have a top rate of 54.75% in Quebec, but only about 45% in a typical province, and about 42% in populous Ontario. Their top federal rate is 29%. (I assumed local taxes are not deductible at the Federal level, otherwise their rates would be lower.) Progressives want Canada’s health care regime. I want their banking system, military, and income tax regime. And their sound public finances. Oil-rich conservative Alberta’s top rate is 39%, versus 43.4% in oil-rich conservative Texas."
I can just see all the people leaving Texas for Alberta just to avoid paying a slightly higher tax rate. Sumner then complains that there are all these 'Zombie ideas' gaining traction:
"Recently a lot of zombie ideas have been resurrected by progressives (and even some conservatives.) These include 75% tax rates, much higher minimum wages, and guaranteed annual incomes. I realize that lots of people are worried about inequality. But there are sensible ways to address the issue (i.e. wage subsidies.) Let’s not shoot ourselves in the foot. There’s a reason that Aruba is the only country in the world with a top rate above 57%."
This is a trick he uses a lot-steal a liberal phrase-'zombie ideas' is actually used by Keynesians and liberals to denote bad ideas-basically pre-Keynesian ideas; I think you can make the case that there are two kinds of economic ideas-Keynesian and pre Keynesian. The pre Keynesian ideas are all basically about placing microeconomics in the rightful place of macroeconomics.
http://www.amazon.com/Zombie-Economics-Ideas-Still-among/dp/0691154546/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1384822055&sr=1-1&keywords=zombie+ideas+in+economics
Big surprise-Sumner's idea of a zombie idea is raising the minimum wage.
"Regarding the minimum wage, here is some data for Western Europe:
"Taxes are fiendishly complex, so this post might have some errors. I’m trying to see where America ranks in terms of “top income tax rate.” Just to be clear, I am not including wage taxes, or corporate income taxes. Nor am I interested in the maximum MTR associated with benefit and deduction phaseouts. You’d have to be a rocket scientist to figure all of those out. I’d like to rank countries according to the MTR as one’s income goes out towards infinity. I believe the top 6 countries are:
1. Aruba 58.95%
2. Sweden 56.6%
3. Denmark 56.4 55.6%
4. Netherlands 52%
5. Spain 52%
6. US 51.4% (but only in California.)
"Our top rate in a typical state is about 48%, which is roughly 10th in the world. The top federal income tax rate is 43.4% (39.6% plus the 3.8% medical income tax.) I got the California number by assuming their 13.3% top rate was deductible against the 39.6% federal rate, but not the 3.8%."
http://www.themoneyillusion.com/?p=24759
He's always been terribly worried about that 3.8% medical income tax:
"Canada seems to have a top rate of 54.75% in Quebec, but only about 45% in a typical province, and about 42% in populous Ontario. Their top federal rate is 29%. (I assumed local taxes are not deductible at the Federal level, otherwise their rates would be lower.) Progressives want Canada’s health care regime. I want their banking system, military, and income tax regime. And their sound public finances. Oil-rich conservative Alberta’s top rate is 39%, versus 43.4% in oil-rich conservative Texas."
I can just see all the people leaving Texas for Alberta just to avoid paying a slightly higher tax rate. Sumner then complains that there are all these 'Zombie ideas' gaining traction:
"Recently a lot of zombie ideas have been resurrected by progressives (and even some conservatives.) These include 75% tax rates, much higher minimum wages, and guaranteed annual incomes. I realize that lots of people are worried about inequality. But there are sensible ways to address the issue (i.e. wage subsidies.) Let’s not shoot ourselves in the foot. There’s a reason that Aruba is the only country in the world with a top rate above 57%."
This is a trick he uses a lot-steal a liberal phrase-'zombie ideas' is actually used by Keynesians and liberals to denote bad ideas-basically pre-Keynesian ideas; I think you can make the case that there are two kinds of economic ideas-Keynesian and pre Keynesian. The pre Keynesian ideas are all basically about placing microeconomics in the rightful place of macroeconomics.
http://www.amazon.com/Zombie-Economics-Ideas-Still-among/dp/0691154546/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1384822055&sr=1-1&keywords=zombie+ideas+in+economics
Big surprise-Sumner's idea of a zombie idea is raising the minimum wage.
"Regarding the minimum wage, here is some data for Western Europe:
"There are nine countries with a minimum wage (Belgium, Netherlands, Britain, Ireland, France, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Luxembourg). Their unemployment rates range from 5.9% in Luxembourg to 27.6% in Greece. The median country is France with 11.1% unemployment."
"There are nine countries with no minimum wage (Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Austria, Germany, Italy, Switzerland.) Five of the nine have a lower unemployment rate than Luxembourg, the best of the other group. The median country is Iceland, with a 5.5% unemployment rate. The biggest country in Europe is Germany. No minimum wage and 5.2% unemployment. Still want to raise our minimum wage to $10?"
Uh, yes-why do you ask? This is another classic Sumner move-provide data that's supposedly shows a correlation and leaving it there. Obvously the minimum wage is the problem-even though Britian didn't have a minimum wage to relatively recently
"Germany used to have really high unemployment. Then they did labor reforms to allow more low wage jobs, combined with subsidies for low wage workers. Now they don’t have high unemployment.
Still want to raise our minimum wage to $10?"
Yes, I do. Sumner didn't even try to give us any reason to think there is a causation at work. A $10 minimum wage is going to destroy the job market? How then did we have a minimum wage of $16 in 1969 and we had a very low unemployment rate. In fact you could draw a correlation with the subsequent failure of the U.S. MW to keep up with productivity or even the rate of inflation and a drop in productivity and a drop in employment. Does it seem very unlikely that a lower MW could lower productivity? Well a Sumner move is just to give you the correlation without worrying about causation.
As for the MW there are a few points to keep in mind. The U.S. MW was created not based on a debate among economists but because of a political demand for it. The MW was passed because the country wanted it-it was a political and social decision not an economic decision. Even till this day economists are about split on the impact of the MW-half think it harms the economy half don't. The empirical record certainly seems to show that if it has an ill effect, it's tiny.
Of course, this is why Sumner likes to say that there is no such thing as public opinion in economics-he meas that he thinks that the average Joe is incapable of understanding economics so, ideally he shouldn't have any power to decide-this is the basis of Sumner's dogmatic preference for the Fed rather than the Treasury handling demand stabilization during a recession.
I've often argued that Sumner does support austerity-whatever he may try to claim to the contrary. It follows if we follow him in buying into the idea that the monetary authorities have total control over demand side issues-this leaves the fiscal side of policy only concerned with the 'long run' and this leaves them-if they observe Sumner's edict that they keep out of demand side policy-with nothing but supply side policy decisions: ergo, Sumner's preferences-cutting the size of government, cutting taxes for the rich, hopefully getting rid of MW laws.
Monetarism-market or otherwise-has always had this supply side, austerian agenda. Think about it: the most successful Monetarist natural experiment was Chile where there was no democracy. Supply side economics on the other hand is two things more than anything:
1. Another pre-Keynesian theory in that it retreats back to microeconomics in setting fiscal policy
2. Regressive. Read a smart and fairly honest SSer like Larry Lindsey. It becomes clear in reading him that regressive tax policies are preferable based on his model.
A zombie idea is a pre-Keynesian idea, and Sumner is King of all pre-Keynesians-that is to say of all the Zombie ideas.
Once again Sumner isnt quite accurate on minimum wages. Its not so clear that Germany doesnt have minimum wages. They do for many sectors of work.
ReplyDeleteHeres what wikipedia says about Germanys minimum wage;
"None; except for construction workers, electrical workers, janitors, roofers, painters, and letter carriers. Minimum wage is often set by collective bargaining agreements in other sectors of the economy and enforceable by law.[4]
The law states that paying a worker an "immoral wage" is illegal. There is no general consensus what constitutes "immoral" payment. One judge at a court in Krefeld, Germany, ruled that a cashier at a supermarket has to earn the equivalent of approximately 7USD per hour. The federal courts in Germany ruled that any wage lower than 75% of the average wage or salary for a specific occupation constitutes illegal payment. However, since there is no well defined legal minimum wage as of February 2013, courts are usually the ones who have the final say and will only rule for individual cases.[74]"
So its actually not so cut and dried that Germany has NO minimum wage. Many workers are guaranteed a min wage.
But I also wonder why Scott thinks its okay to have wage subsidies? Isnt this just the govt paying part of the wage for businesses? Why dont we expect businesses to pay ALL the wage to their employees? Why should we subsidize so WalMart can make more profit? Isnt wage subsidy an acknowledgement that the market doesnt always work to allow workers make a living? In addition isnt it an acknowledgement that without workers consuming at a certain level our modern economies suffer? Hmmm sounds to me like supply side policies actually need demand side support to actually "work".
One of the best internet comments .....EVAH!... came from Beolwulf (Of MR fame of late) regarding minimum wages.
ReplyDelete"To this point, beowulf, a blogger and commenter much respected in MMT and Modern Monetary realism (MMR) circles, added a number of lively comments about the desirability of raising the minimum wage that I think are worth blogging here. He said:
“Minimum wage laws are like hummingbird wings. In theory they shouldn't work at all, in the real world they work pretty well.
Australia's minimum wage was just bumped to A$15.96 an hour, US$16.84.hr at today's exchange rate. Unemployment rate is 5.2%.
Think about that, their U3 rate is three points lower AND their minimum wage is more than double ours. Either the Coriolis effect makes neoclassical economics work backwards in the Southern hemisphere, or mainstream economists are a bunch of astrologers who think they're Carl Sagan.
$16.84/hr is high enough that a full time worker making that here would be means-tested out of food stamps, section 8 and other income security programs.
So what's going on is Australia puts the cost of a living wage for the working poor on their employers instead of taxpayers, enabling govt spending to be focused on other needs-- like universal Medicare and a Social Security system so broad it would impress even Rodger Mitchell.
Then later on he added:
“One other thing, this John Stossel post last month may be the most mendacious thing I've read all year.
"Statists say that Australia is proof that minimum wage laws help workers. They point to Australia's 5.1% unemployment rate... But statists ignore the details.
"Most people who earn minimum wage are young, unskilled workers. How are they doing in Australia?
"In June, Australia's unemployment rate for workers age 15 to 19 was 16.5%."
"That's digging pretty deep for an unemployment stat. Curious that Stossel neglected to mention the comparable US stat (for workers 16 to 19). In June, their unemployment rate was...26.6%.
That Coriolis effect is CRAZY."
And then he added a bit more:
”OK, this is really the last one...
"According to the Heritage Foundation/WSJ "2011 Index of Economic Freedom", Australia's "government spending as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP)" is less than that of the United States; 34.3% vs 38.9%.
"Stop and think about that... universal Medicare (with dental!), a jumbo size Social Security system, a defense policy of jumping into the same wars we do (including Vietnam and Iraq) and Australia still spends less on government than we do. At risk of sounding hyperbolic, I"d say that Coriolis effect is strong enough to move hurricanes (and cyclones). :o)”
Nothing more need be added
Good stuff from Bewoulf. Do you have a link Greg?
ReplyDeleteIt was in a comment section of a post on MR and Id have to look real hard to find it.
ReplyDeleteI simply copied the part I liked and saved it in a folder on my desktop I use fo rthat kind of stuff