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Friday, May 31, 2013

Is Sumner Krugman's Real Enemy?

     I think so. There is now some pretty bullish predictions among economists This is a great thing. Let's hope they are right.

    "Times have changed since 2010. Barring a fresh crisis — and there are certainly a few that could arise — many economists expect growth to return to a fairly healthy level by next year as house prices and the stock market continue to rise and the jobless rate falls closer to its historic average of 5.8 percent."

     Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/2014-election-economy-92053.html#ixzz2UsrHGgKG


    Indeed, if things do go this way we'll finally be able to feel like we're in a recovery. This is obviously great news if it turns out to be true. However, the question will be if we get to these levels next year or even in the next few years, what have we learned?

    One thing surely we've learned now is that in a dramatic rise in the monetary base by itself is not at all inflationary. Also during a recession there's little risk of 'discipline by bond vigilantes' provided the country in question has its own printing press as the U.S., Britain, Japan, and most noneuro countries do. 

   We've also learned of course that the EU's structure is a disaster and in the future they will need to either become more politically and fiscally integrated or less dissolve in the future. Certainly the idea of stimulative austerity has been defeated and Reinhart and Rogoff have egg on their faces for hyping up a coming debt bomb and 90% debt as some kind of hobgoblin. Now they're pretending that they never hyped this up.They certainly fooled Tom Coburn. 


     However, it seems to me, that Sumner is working very hard on being the one who nailed this recession. I'm not saying he's right, in fact I disagree with him. However, he has always been in a war that Krugman didn't know he was waging. 

     Those who argue for austerity will claim Sumner's monetary offset theory. Austerity is fine as long as the Fed properly offsets it. Judging by comments from the OECD, it seems that Sumner's getting some traction:

       "This is from OECD’s Economic Outlook report published earlier today:
In the euro area, the area-wide fiscal consolidation (measured as an improvement in the underlying primary budget balance) of just over 4% of GDP between 2009 and 2013 was similar to that in the United States over the same period. This casts doubts about the role of fiscal tightening in explaining the comparatively weak performance of the euro area.
     http://diaryofarepublicanhater.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-general-casuistry-of-markets.html

     So what this means for economic theory will be interesting. Of course, let's hope we won't have to test  what we've learned from an crisis on the level of 2008 again any time soon. Meanwhile these numbers should help the Democrats next year.

     The 2014 midterm election is shaping up as something the United States has not seen in nearly a decade: a campaign run in a strengthening economy with deficits on the decline.
No one is popping champagne corks yet, and risks remain. But the altered terrain, if it holds, could benefit Democrats and challenge Republicans whose rise to power in the House in 2010 came via a tea party movement that blasted President Barack Obama and his party for ignoring a stagnant economy and piling up an endless run of trillion dollar deficits.


    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/2014-election-economy-92053.html#ixzz2UsyN3O7F


     So it's take the good-Democrats being helped-with the bad-Sumner declaring victory. Still Krugman should probably be more proactive in discussing Market Monetarism. It seems to me this is where the wrong lessons could be learned. 

10 comments:

  1. Check this out:

    http://diaryofarepublicanhater.blogspot.com/2013/05/sumner-continuing-to-push-monetary.html?showComment=1370019145855#c3020223819029655301

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  2. Oh, he does praise Krugman as well sometimes. It's 'concern trolling.' I mean he''l say he's a very smart economst and talented blogger. Still his goal is to undermine the Keynesian idea of stimulus. It's about ideas not personalities

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  3. It always seems to me that there's plenty of room for some sort of broad compromise agreement between the NKers and the MMers on good policy objective. I think they'd both be for raising inflation and even for some kinds of fiscal stimulus (Sumner has mentioned that not ALL fiscal stimulus is always useless... for example "supply side" stimulus... perhaps others?... also he's thinks spending should be on a cost benefit basis... so it's not like he's against all spending). Doesn't it seem they could hash out a coordinated plan that didn't necessarily make everyone completely happy but that virtually all parties would agree would be reasonable: ... I could see for example a plan that included some fiscal stimulus that the MMers might grumble about, but that they would agree wouldn't cause too much harm... and then perhaps NGDP could be targeted instead of inflation... perhaps not ideal for the NKers, but acceptable. It just seems to me that NKers and MMers are a LOT closer to each other than are either traditional monetarists or Austrians.

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  4. Ha, check out what Glasner says here:

    "there is a lot of common ground between what MMs and Krugman have been advocating."

    http://uneasymoney.com/2013/05/30/is-japan-a-currency-manipulator/#comment-19482

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  5. Well Sumner in partiuclar has really done a lot to make it sound like there's a very large difference. I still don't trust him.

    He wants to weaken the case for fiscal stimulus if he can. In truth it's true-Krugman has never said we shouldn't do monetary policy-quite the opposite.

    The real diference is this. Sumner thinks that if the CB decalres an NGDP target or better yet an NGDP level target, that's most of the heavy lifiting. Krugman thinks that's fine but we also need fiscal stimulus to go with it. This is what they are doing in Japan with Abenomics.

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  6. Been out of touch recently Mike and have missed commenting on all these great Sumner posts! My wife had some surgery this week and Ive been back and forth between here and Atlanta alot with not much time to write comments, just read some. Shes home and doing great so I want to catch up a little now.


    I think the main area of common ground between Sumner and Krugman is they both believe our deficits/debt must be "controlled" or they could become a long term problem, they just quibble. about how exactly to do that. It is in that regard that they are both, in my view, still missing the point.

    Krugman is still poisoned by the Friedman/supply side school and has way too much faith in what a Central Bank can accomplish while Sumner cant really grasp, it seems, that much of what he advocates for is actually fiscal but its carried out by the Central Bank.

    Tom is right though both schools are very much in favor of somebody doing something, unlike the Austrians who want nothing done, so they might be able to find some overlapping territory

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  7. Hey Greg! Glad to have you back and very glad your wife is doing well.

    I don't entirely agree with this:

    "I think the main area of common ground between Sumner and Krugman is they both believe our deficits/debt must be "controlled" or they could become a long term problem, they just quibble. about how exactly to do that."

    I don't think you can be more clear than Krugman has been in saying that now is not the time to be worrying about deficits/debt. Sumner on the other hand says:

    Do all the austerity the Republicans want as the Fed will offset it.

    Only in the very longterm does Krugman agree it can in theory be an issue. Now I'm not sure I follow him even here. I mean if we get growth back to where it should be and tax revenues spike we probably wouldn't need to do anything too drastic in the future.

    After WWII we had the kind of debt that R-R have been beating their breasts about. We did nothing to fix it but growth eliminated it over a period of years.

    While I think you can disagree with Krugman on this point he himself has emphasized that in this environment that's pretty hypothetical. He has ragued for more stimulus and been the loudest voice against R-R at least in the mainstream press.

    He has said that with interest rates this low this is the time to borrow. I can't see knocking him too much.

    Where Sumner and Krugman agree is that they should do more monetary easing. Krugman agrees that the Fed could try NGDP targeting. But for him that's just the start-you add fiscal stimulus to it as Abe is doing in Japan.

    Sumner believes that confidence in the Fed will do all the heavy lifting.

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  8. Thanks Mike, glad to be back. I will still be playing nurse a lot the next 3-4 months as there are some very severe activity restrictions on my wife. Its going to be a long convalescence but it will be worth it.

    Its true that Krugman doesnt think that the deficit needs to be tended to NOW but he does still think its a number we must pay attention to, which I think is wrong. The entire edifice of modern economics, which focuses on these financial variables first really just needs to be scrapped. The deficit is something that NEVER needs to be reported! Who should really care how big the minus side is on the govts balance sheet? This whole fixation needs to be scrapped before we can ever move forward to addressing the real needs of our nation......and world.

    Krugman is one of the good guys but he is still very much part of a broken system which relies upon mostly irrelevant metrics. Sumner.... well you already know what I think of Sumner.

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    Replies
    1. Greg, I'm not a big fan of deficit hawkery either. But I think even the MMTers think the deficit can be a problem in certain situations-not in a deep recession of course.

      I think that when you talk about the structural deficit, allocational issues can be important. Like the deficit under Reagan and Bush were too high because of what it was composed of: military buildup and tax cuts for the rich.

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    2. I remember once Krugman suggested that MMTers don't care about the deficit and they went off on him for weeks over that one.

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