I always think of reading a textbook-in any subject-as a rather dry and dense way to learn anything. I like reading books but I see textbooks as rather a dull way to go about it. When Nick has reiterated his request that those like me who are interested in "heterodox" economics read an undergraduate textbook I kind of felt like, "Sure, but how many Macro students really read the textbook cover to cover?"
Then too, from what I've heard many people today in these Macro classes are there for no reason other than that they're good at mathematics-heterodox econ guys like Steve Keen and Skidelsky argue for scaling back the mathematics for econ students and giving them more of a well rounded grounding in other subjects-the other sciences, history, politics, etc.
Still I can't deny that to critique the neoclassical guys you need to really be able to understand where they're coming from and the seemingly rather counterintutiive way they look at the world. Indeed, Unlearning Econ has given advice on how not to debate neoclassical guys.
http://unlearningeconomics.wordpress.com/2012/06/
Even in trying to debate Sumner I see that they certainly have quite a reservoir of ways of avoiding polemical points.
So I visited Nick's website to see which textbooks he recommended. Turns out he chose not to:
" Non-economists may be surprised that I haven't said which textbook I would recommend. That's because it doesn't really matter much. They are all fairly similar in coverage and treatment. And they are almost all good, in my opinion."
http://worthwhile.typepad.com/worthwhile_canadian_initi/2012/07/can-you-please-read-a-first-year-textbook.html
For the last time I mixed it up with Nick regarding this issue of textbooks see
http://diaryofarepublicanhater.blogspot.com/2013/02/what-nick-rowe-does-at-600-pm.html
In his original post at Worthwhile he made a very good case:
" You are probably very smart. You are probably very well-educated -- either formally, or self-educated, and probably both. You spend a lot of time on the internet reading economics blogs and commenting on those blogs. You maybe even have a blog of your own, where you write about economics topics. You are probably politically engaged. You are probably a lefty, but may be a righty, or someone who is not easily categorised on that political spectrum. You probably think of yourself as a critic of economics, or a critic of what you see as orthodox economics. You are probably sympathetic to what you see as heterodox economics."
"But you have never once read a first year economics textbook."
"You have probably many times told me, or people like me, that I really really should read something you want me to read."
"Well now it's my turn."
"I think you really really should read a first year economics textbook."
"You have invested so much time in thinking about, reading about, and writing about, economics. Don't you think it would make sense to spend a tiny fraction of that time just reading a standard first year textbook, cover to cover? You could do it in one day. Maybe two, if you go really slowly and carefully. They were designed to be read by an average reader who is probably less smart and less motivated and less knowledgeable than you are. It's gonna be a breeze!"
"Even if you think you won't agree with it. Even if you think it's going to be all horribly wrong."
"Because, at the very least, you will better understand how the people you are criticising view the world."
"Because, at the very least, you will better understand the language that is used by the people you are criticising."
"Because, at the very least, you will better understand what is and is not an idea that is seen as "heterodox" by the people you are criticising."
"Because, at the very least, you would make this blog and other blogs better."
I found this appeal by Nick very persuasive. Unlike Sumner, he doesn't speak as if those interested in heterodox ideas are hopelessly ignorant and clueless. Not that I think Sumner's all bad but this is not an area that excels. For the most part if he doesn't like an idea he'd rather ignore it.
I was expecting Nick to say "read Mankiw" or something. So I'll definitely start with Samuelson as what I saw is pretty impressive. While his IS-LM approach gets jeers from Sumner-and cheers from Krugman- it remains to this day the standard for undergraduate textbooks-DSGE is for graduates.
Here are a couple of lines that took me in from Samuelson: "The Whole and the Part."
"If all farmers work hard and nature cooperates and produces a bumper crop. total farm income falls."
"One man by great ingenuity in hunting for a job or in willingness to work for less may solve his own unemployment problem, but all can't solve their problems in this way."
"It may pay a business firm to take on some business at much less than full costs.'
There are lots more good ones on this page but Amazon doesn't let you cut and paste.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0070747415/ref=gno_cart_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3ADN03F2ABAVW
Yep, I got to read this just to figure out how these things are all true.
P.S. How much Sumner is not a fan of IS-LM is suggested here:
"The architect Christopher Wren is buried in a simple tomb in the basement of St. Paul’s Cathedral. I belive the inscription reads “If you seek a monument, look around you.” I’m not trying to compare myself to that great man, but I suppose I could say something similar about my blog, which is almost entirely an implied critique of the IS-LM way of thinking about monetary economics."
http://www.themoneyillusion.com/?p=915
Krugman defends IS-LM:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/is-lmentary/
P.S. How much Sumner is not a fan of IS-LM is suggested here:
"The architect Christopher Wren is buried in a simple tomb in the basement of St. Paul’s Cathedral. I belive the inscription reads “If you seek a monument, look around you.” I’m not trying to compare myself to that great man, but I suppose I could say something similar about my blog, which is almost entirely an implied critique of the IS-LM way of thinking about monetary economics."
http://www.themoneyillusion.com/?p=915
Krugman defends IS-LM:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/is-lmentary/
Mike, did you mean to put a different link after you wrote "Krugman defends IS-LM?"
ReplyDeleteYes, I've corrected it.
ReplyDeleteThanks Mike. A lot of other people responded rather angrily to that post of mine. It seemed to hit a nerve.
ReplyDeleteSamuelson 1948 is the father/grandfather(?) of current textbooks. (Though I have only skimmed it, but did get taught with only slightly later editions, IIRC).
It is much shorter than current texts. (Current texts are far too wordy and long, and were longer still until Mankiw came along and cut out a lot of waffle.) In macro it puts more emphasis on the Keynesian Cross model, and less on the supply-side, IIRC. I don't think it covers ISLM, which is normally taught in second year.
I was interested to read those 3 things that caught your eye in Samuelson's "The whole and the part". I explicitly teach two of those 3 things in Intro. The one about unemployment is implicit in some of the models I teach under some circumstances, but I don't point it out to students. Hmmm. Maybe I should? Because it's neat showing things that aren't obvious. And it can get (some) students intellectually engaged.
" Then too, from what I've heard many people today in these Macro classes are there for no reason other than that they're good at mathematics-.."
That is (unfortunately) partly true at the graduate level, but not in first year undergrad economics (where we use very little math anyway). Though I wish more first year students were taking Intro Econ because they were really keen on understanding economics (but that is a complaint many profs across many disciplines might make).
Yeah, Nick, I think I responded more like a lot of people at first-you know "these guys are condescending" but when I read your post you were quite respectful and made a pretty good point.
ReplyDeleteI can't help but think of Rorty-who Sumner is a fan of-who talks about different social groups having different language games and different "stories we tell ourselves about ourselves."
Part of what no doubt frustrates heterodox guys or simply interested laypeople is that neoclassical economists have their own distinct language that doesn't look so easy at first glance to penetrate.
However, I think it's worth the effort. I do think that we've had a real flowering of economic discussion on the econ blogs especially starting with the economic crisis.
While Sumner may not be a fan of mine- I would certainly agree that he's a big part of how I got so interested in monetary and economic questions.
I see the flowering of the econ blogs as the cyberspace 21st century parallel to the intellectual salons of Voltaire and Rousseau's day-late 18th century.
"IIRC"... that's a new one for me.
ReplyDeleteGreat Mike. Keep us posted.
One thing I'd like to know is why econ blogs aren't MORE about math. I prefer reading English myself most of the time, but it's hard to beat math for describing how quantifiable things relate to each other. It seems so much of what goes on in economics blogs is endless descriptions, in words, about the mechanics of what is happening. I sometimes wonder if the argument couldn't be summarized in half a dozen lines of well thought out equations and definitions. I guess at the heart of it all would be a "behavioral model" to model the decisions people would make.
BTW, doesn't that last one (on your list above) boil down to the old "give the razor away for free, but sell the razor blades" idea?
Well Tom not all of us understand the math too well! LOL. Some blogs have more math than others but if you want to write for a general audience you don't want it to turn into a white paper!
ReplyDeleteI don't write math as I don't really know the math they use-I'm getting better at following what all the symbols mean!
Math is only a tool anyway it's not the point of economics. The words are what's most important-you go to math when it clarifies something better.
There's an arugment that some make that there's too much mathematics in the economics curriculum anyway.
Tom Brown arguing for more math sounds EXACTLY like an academic economist! Econ blogs are very different from econ journals, which are full of math models.
ReplyDeleteMost econ bloggers deliberately try to avoid math, because they are trying to be read by a wider audience.
"BTW, doesn't that last one (on your list above) boil down to the old "give the razor away for free, but sell the razor blades" idea?"
No. It's all about the difference between marginal costs vs average total costs, and opportunity costs vs sunk costs.
Yes I got to admit we don't need more math on the econblogs.
ReplyDeleteMike, did you get a paper copy or an electronic one? Do you actually have the book yet?
ReplyDeleteNo, Tom. It's a little pricey but I'll buy it soon. I've bought a lot of econ books from Amazon lately so I have plenty to read.
ReplyDeleteReally? What's on your list?
DeleteRight now I'm reading "Economic Policy and the Great Stagflation" by Alan Blinder.
ReplyDelete